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by peter303 3167 days ago
Some people dont know Woz spent some years as an elementary school math teacher after leaving his full time Apple job. So he as insight as a teacher.
3 comments

While I'm sure Woz would make a fantastic teacher, I don't think experience teaching kids elementary math would really give anyone insight into teaching CS/data science topics.
Why not? How is teaching kids math different from teaching older kids CS and data science? I am curious, not trolling.
As someone who’s taught Algebra to 7th grade kids using functional programming concepts building their own game, I agree, there’s significant overlap. The course plan I used is available[0] if interested.

[0] http://bootstrapworld.org

You can't teach children proper mathematics. That's what's different. Children are not in general ready for math before 8'th or 9'th grade. That's why they are just pestered with arithmetic until the majority becomes numberfobes. And then have difficulties with real mathematics later.
I have not seen that data point before, children not being ready for math until 8/9 grade. Where did you learn that/see that?
I'm a mathematician. I have taught mathematics, albeit briefly, at the university level.

I disagree with the person you responded to, but want to thread this here.

Mathematics can be taught at early ages. Unfortunately, we tend to teach mathematics by rote. We teach arithmetic and not mathematics.

What we could be doing is teaching mathematics as a language. Mathematics is a language, it's an expressive language that relies on logic. Like any language, it is unconstained by reality and can be used to express concepts and ideals. In conjunction with other languages, it can express complexities and trivialities.

Unfortunately, we never seem to teach kids why, but simply teach them the method. We teach them a process, by rote and enforcement. We don't encourage discovery, nor do we try to explain the totality. In part, I believe, this is due to many who give instruction not actually having the knowledge to do so.

Tempting as this is to turn this into a novella, I'll try for brevity. It is true that mathematics isn't an easy subject, but a part of that difficulty comes from the way in which we teach it.

> Unfortunately, we tend to teach mathematics by rote

This is one of the reasons I never felt it valuable to memorise times-tables (literally chanting them in classes). IMO, it's much more useful, and generalises better, to be comfortable taking, say, 9x8 and saying "OK, it's 10x8 - 8 = 72" (instead of just memorising 9x8=72).

It may be a fraction faster, but being comfortable in those manipulations still helps when tackling something more complex (e.g. 99x89) whereas mere memorisation doesn't.

Thank you for this insight. I completely agree. I never liked 'maths' as a child. When I got to the university we had one class with a great professor who really used maths as a language like you describe, suddenly it all starts to make sense. I think I have been ruined though and have too many wrong patterns in my head.

Now I am wondering what resources can I use at home to teach my daughter (and future) kids about math as a language more than as a chore? Do you know of any good books or other resources meant for kids and parents?

I've seen similar statements before, and it is a major point in Lockhart's Lament. I wonder if only people who are both good mathematicians and good teachers can pull off teaching mathematics as a language.
Are Problems where you use the Theory enough? How many? All uses or just some?

If not Problems, maybe modify the Theory a little and show which Problems are unsolvable now?

Are those two in the Why included? What else do you think should be included?

Regards.

", I don't think experience teaching kids elementary math would really give anyone insight into teaching CS/data science topics."

?

I couldn't imagine any better or more relevant experience than that.

Teaching in the real-world probably gives you quite a lot of insight into the nature of learning. Math is pretty close to CS, of course, CS is a 'branch' of Math!

there's a huge difference between developing and teaching curriculum for elementary school math, and developing and presenting curriculum for an online education system that extends beyond elementary school age and elementary school math.
Man I wish he was my math teacher, I probably would of been much more engaged back then.
> I probably would of

Your english teacher wasn't very engaging either, I guess?