[noam87]

- Even assuming all this, a hybrid approach of HTTP + IPFS (or DAT) is still better than what we have now, since IPFS is essentially a worldwide CDN for static files.(Sorry: an inter-planetary one.)

- The content-addressing aspect makes it perfect for distributing commonly used libraries.

- We already cache all this content locally. What a waste! Why do I have to fetch jQuery from fricking California when it's sitting on my girlfriend's phone in the other room?

- This extends beyond the web: think about the benefits (both in security, practicality, and performance) of content addressing introduced into package managers (take it one step further even: combine this idea with the new move towards reproducible builds (https://reproducible-builds.org) and package managers like guix and nix and things get really interesting).

- It's actually easier to use for the average person. If you don't think this is the case I propose a simple experiment: download the beaker browser and set up a simple static site. I recently did this. It really is one-click hosting! Considering how complicated web hosting is to the average person (ever try to walk a friend through setting up a website? not. fun.) -- people would love to be able to set up personal websites this easily... and for free?

- As others have mentioned, there are many solutions being worked on for the mirroring of data (Filecoin etc).

- For websites that are visited regularly, this is not an issue -- all content is cached temporarily. It suddenly becomes basically free to serve an audience of millions... again: with one click.

- If history serves as precedent, if it does fail it would be in spite of being an objectively superior, practical solution. Getting a critical mass of people on this thing is the hardest problem to figure out. -- I suspect package management, academic data are the best place to start, then one-click personal hosting -- not even think about "apps" for now.

- Didn't you just read the web is about to go permanent? Do you really want to be archived for all history as one more nay-sayer? ;)

[tscs37]

>since IPFS is essentially a worldwide CDN for static files.(Sorry: an inter-planetary one.)

Sorry but IPFS is interplanetary in the same way a Boeing 747 is capable of orbital flight.

Last I checked IPFS will not tolerate minute long latencies and requires a bandwidth above several kilobits per second which would immediately disqualify it for anything farther than the moon.

And I'm not sure it would work on the moon since that is a 2 second latency and I had issues with it when I used it on a mobile phone network with 800ms latency.

>I recently did this. It really is one-click hosting!

Except it isn't hosted unless atleast one person keeps a copy online, otherwise it goes offline or you pay money to some hoster or filecoin (not that I think that filecoin isn't a huge scam at this point)

>- Didn't you just read the web is about to go permanent? Do you really want to be archived for all history as one more nay-sayer? ;)

Since the number of people interested in the content of this page is declining with every decade passing, I think I'll make a bet it'll be no longer available on an IPFS after a mere two decades.

[lgierth]

> Last I checked IPFS will not tolerate minute long latencies and requires a bandwidth above several kilobits per second which would immediately disqualify it for anything farther than the moon. > >And I'm not sure it would work on the moon since that is a 2 second latency and I had issues with it when I used it on a mobile phone network with 800ms latency.

Fair points :) We'll be addressing this in the coming months with increased work on the network stack (libp2p).

[noam87]

> Last I checked IPFS will not tolerate minute long latencies and requires a bandwidth above several kilobits per second. [...] It isn't hosted unless atleast one person keeps a copy online.

And the vacuum tubes in my Colossus might overheat at that rate too! -- Damn, you're right, we're just not smart enough to solve those problems.

---

edit:

> Does sarcasm prove your point?

Fair enough, sarcastic Parthian shot removed. I get overexcited sometimes.

[tscs37]

>And the vacuum tubes in my Colossus might overheat at that rate too! -- Damn, you're right, we're just not smart enough to solve those problems.

I was merely pointing out that it's not correct to call something interplanetary if it's not. It's mostly false advertising.

>Are those the ones that go whoosh?

Does sarcasm prove your point?

[dingo_bat]

> Why do I have to fetch jQuery from fricking California when it's sitting on my girlfriend's phone in the other room?

Because your girlfriend probably values her battery life and data usage? I doubt we'll ever see phones hosting any ipfs content for the reasons.

[hobofan]

Funny you should say that. Just hours ago I released an app that helps you pin your most important IPFS hashes to your phone[0]. Works well together with IPFSDroid[1].

Battery usage is definitely noticable, but my phone has a good battery life overall, and IPFS on the phone is a priority for me.

Data usage would be a problem, but I use it only when connected to a portable WIFI hotspot I am carrying with me.

[0]: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.hobofan.ip...

[1]: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.ligi.ipfsd...

[mcbits]

In a post-carrier world, she would be paid with tokens that she could use to buy faster network access later in the day or sell any surplus to heavy network users (probably indirectly through a brokerage, perhaps even run by a company that used to be a carrier). The tokens might even buy electricity from the neighbor's solar panel to charge the phone.

[noam87]

If data isn't embarrassingly cheap before mid-century we did something terribly wrong. Ditto electricity / battery life by the end of century.

(and again: content-addressing could drastically reduce data usage anyway.)

[ketzu]

If I understand correctly, the argument isn't against content addressing but against sharing the content with anyone. While you have an incentive to store it locally and reach for that first, you (currently) have a negative incentive (=cost of data/electricity) to share it with someone.

[Semiapies]

Why do I have to fetch jQuery from fricking California when it's sitting on my girlfriend's phone in the other room?

Just for one? Because, if you have the ability to do that, your girlfriend's phone has the ability to detect whether anybody nearby is accessing any arbitrary file or page. It just has to host a copy of that page and see whether anyone pulls it.

[noam87]

I don't know the internals of IPFS DHT implementation, but the whitepaper mentions Kadmelia and Coral. Coral tries to optimize for ping latency (you're not literally fetching from nearest geographical neighbor, I simplified to make a point).

Unless I misunderstand your point, but honestly it seems like people here are engaging more in "gotcha" nay-saying than honest efforts of criticism... it would've taken you two minutes of googling to find out this is a non-issue.

[Semiapies]

It's not a non-issue just because people boosting a technology say it is. Ever heard of timing attacks?

[noam87]

I have, but I'm no security expert so perhaps I'm not seeing something obvious. -- Do you have a specific attack in mind? Is it an insurmountable vulnerability?

If so you can just explain it (or report it).