[pepon]

There are also many many people and windows without flags ;) Once they become an independent country, it will be one where ~50% of the people doesn't want to belong to it. Let's see what kind of "democracia" will they apply there.

[severino]

Well, that's happening already: half the population does not want to belong to the state. The "democracia" here is you don't vote and never will. What can be worse than that?

[pepon]

No, that is not what is happening. Spain is a state where the majority of the people wants to belong to the state. Catalonia would be a state where half of the people wouldn't want to belong to it. I wonder if the future Catalan government will allow referendums so that such people will be able to split from Catalonia.

Besides, not voting is also democracy. Most of the Spanish people don't want to allow these kind of referendums in Spain. Therefore, Spain is doing what the majority wants (== democracy).

[elecbit]

I agree that "not voting is also democracy". However I cannot agree about not allowing to vote, which is the case. It's a political issue, which should be solved like it was in Scotland.

In the name of what, a group can decide over another on what is it allowed to do? Because of the frontiers made after conquering when using force?

[pepon]

"In the name of what, a group can decide over another on what is it allowed to do?"

Of course that a group can decide over another group which is a subset of the former. Otherwise, any city of any country, or any group of individuals, could decide to vote and set their own rules for whatever they want.

[gpvos]

Pure rule of the majority is a perversion of democracy (this holds both on the Spanish and the Catalonian level). Taking minorities into account and giving them appropriate rights is just as integral a part of democracy.

[elecbit]

"decide over another group which is a subset of the former" A subset of the former in the name of the frontiers set by a centralist monarch who won a war and forbid language and institutions in Catalonia in 1714. Check the law that supports my comment: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nueva_Planta_decrees

"Otherwise, any city of any country, or any group of individuals, could decide to vote and set their own rules for whatever they want." --> And do you think this is wrong? I think self-governance is the future. Not to go against anyone, but to decide more about everything. Not to put a paper in a ballot every 4 years.

[literallycancer]

>No, that is not what is happening. Spain is a state where the majority of the people wants to belong to the state. Catalonia would be a state where half of the people wouldn't want to belong to it.

Current Catalonia vs future Catalonia is the proper comparison. The one you made is just manipulative crap.

Should the people in Hungary have asked the Habsburg government or the population of the rest of the empire whether they can have their own country? Should the Slovenians, Czechs, Poles or anyone else?

Should the Irish have asked people in Britain to kindly let them have their own country?

>Besides, not voting is also democracy. Most of the Spanish people don't want to allow these kind of referendums in Spain. Therefore, Spain is doing what the majority wants (== democracy).

Self determination, ever heard of it?

[lllllll]

One has the right not to vote, but not the right to stop others from voting. - Heard somewhere (?)

[Bicho]

Well; just a point; inside Catalonia there's also a part that wants to separate from Catalonia; the Aran Valley; with their own culture, history and language; and Catalonian Government has never ever wanted to hear about that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Val_d'Aran

Indeed, in the brand new Catalonian Independency Law, it's stated at the very beginning that Republic of Catalonia is (will be) a non-severable country; exactly like the Spanish Constitution article that doesn't allow Catalonian referendum... Just committing the same mistakes that they denounce?