[grimborg]

Self determination is a human right. It is not unlawful, and a referendum about it isn’t either. If a certain law doesn’t allow for it, the law is wrong.

Of course, Spain is also calling thoroughly pacific demonstrations “tumultuous” so that they can accuse politicians of sedition, so Spain clearly doesn’t care about truth and law.

[darthdev]

Secession is in fact illegal in most of the world countries (if not all). Auto-determination is a right recognized in the UN for regions under colonial rule. Catalonia is not a region under colonial rule, and in fact the UN does not recognize the right of auto-determination of Catalonia (Source in Spanish from a newspaper from Catalonia: http://www.lavanguardia.com/politica/20151030/54438498099/ba...).

Is the law is wrong? Maybe, in fact I might agree with the right to vote secession, but (IMHO) this needs to be done with great care, if not, any region of any state can call a vote for independence each time they disagree with the neighbors. In fact this kind of "blackmail" has been used consistently in Catalonia for years: "If you don't vote this bill, we will secede from Spain".

So, I don't think that the law that prohibit referendums for secession is completely nonsense. Exceptions of course can be made, but, is the case of Catalonia an exception? Before answer that, please, think if you have all the data to make that statement.

[Oletros]

> In fact this kind of "blackmail" has been used consistently in Catalonia for years: "If you don't vote this bill, we will secede from Spain".

That blackmail has not used never. If you think so, provide just one example.

[darthdev]

If I remember correctly, this started because the opposition party at the moment (PP) appeal at the constitutional court the "estatut".

If you ask me, I think that was a political (dirty) movement to gain some votes. But the point here is that since some Catalans didn't like the court resolution, they started this "blackmail": "either you accept the estatut or we will secede". We are now at the threat of secession.

Note that the quoted texts are not literal phrases said by anyone, it is just to clarify my point.

You asked one example, here is one. There are many other examples of laws passed in the Spanish congress with the support of Catalan parties in exchange of political favors.

[Oletros]

Eh, no, the ones disactivating the Estatut where the PP and CiU (the one doing all the shit now) to fuck off the Tripartit