[platz]

correct, Socialism according to Marx is not 'the government does stuff'. 'the government does stuff', when the private sector is replaced by government functions, is really State Capitalism (because the state controls the means of production, not the workers). In fact, it was Stalin that declared 'when the state is in charge, we got socialism'. It confused everybody but it's wrong.

[CryptoPunk]

Curiously enough, Chavez had similar things to say about state capitalism:

>>“It is impossible, within the framework of the capitalist system, to solve the grave problems of poverty of the majority of the world’s population,” the Venezuelan leader said. “We must transcend capitalism. But we cannot resort to state capitalism, which would be the same perversion of the Soviet Union. We must reclaim socialism as a thesis, a project, and a path, but a new type of socialism, a humanist one which puts humans and not machines or the state ahead of everything."

Socialism is always one execution away from utopia.

[platz]

And did he achieve this stated goal? no... so you can't pretend like he did achieve it, and then somehow the failed outcome proves that the goal is itself invalid.

I don't think that what politicians claim is a sound method to understand the definition of something, especially when we _do_ have the definition already (again, what Marx described).

Just because Chavez made claim X, that doesn't mean that the original definition is somehow altered.

And remember, your original claim was that price controls are socialist, which still doesn't make sense; pivoting to something Chavez said doesn't correct this.

I am no fan of what Venezuela or Chavez is doing, and I don't support their policies.

If you want an example of something that is more faithful to what Marx described, take a look at the Mondragon Corporation, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mondragon_Corporation which is a competitive worker cooperative based in Spain. Notice that this has nothing to do with the government.