[padobson]

If you'll notice in all of my comments here, I've been careful to say "markets" and not "free markets". I've also tried to steer clear of specific opinions about levels of regulation or taxation or the value provided by certain social programs.

If you want to discuss the merits of a specific regulation, tax or social program, I'm happy to do that, but I haven't addressed any of those things as of yet.

Since China switched to a market economy, a huge chunk of their massive population has escaped poverty. Some of those markets are highly regulated, but they are still markets. Nothing about China's recent growth is incompatible with the views I've expressed in this thread thus far.

[nerfhammer]

this is why the term "competitive market" better captures what may intended by the term "free market".

"free" would seem to exclude regulation that increases market competition but would not seem to exclude subsidies that might decrease competition. All of the benefits of markets come from competition, not "free"-ness.