[balance_factor]

> the "oppressed"

Sure, how are they oppressed? In 1938 Barcelona was bombed because the army wanted to destroy the republic and what existed of Catalonia autonomy. So any existing Catalonia autonomy or democracy of any form was crushed in 1939, replaced by a military dictatorship, and only started to recover in 1977-1978. The Spanish dictatorship killed thousands of Catalans after the 1939 takeover.

The same forces in Spanish society who did that are the same forces which seek to destroy Catalan autonomy again. By the same means, policemen kicking down the door. You dismiss prior referendums, fine. There is going to be one in 11 days. So if those polls you cite are true, then it seems independence will not happen. It's bizarre to call a referendum in ten days "outrageously undemocratic", while decades of a brutal dictatorship established by an invasion and the murder of thousands afterward goes without mention.

[gfiorav]

What forces are you talking about? The fascist killed Spaniards from all Spain, not only Catalonia. In any case, the republic was outspokenly against the Catalan independence. Azaña was quoted to write in a letter “before alllwing for an independent Catalonia, I’ll give it to Franco”. Please don’t revise history, is the most fascist thing you can do.

The problem with the referendum results is that they can’t be accurate. They’re asking people to bring the ballots printed at home, and there’s no accurate census. No observers either. Not that the Catalonian government cares, of course.

[icebraining]

Azaña said many things: "Si en algún momento dominara en Cataluña otra voluntad y resolviera remar sola en su navío, sería justo permitirlo y nuestro deber consistiría en dejaros en paz, y si esto sucediera os desearíamos buena suerte hasta que cicatrizara la herida"

[notspanishflu]

Please, tell the whole story.

Yes, Azaña said those words in March, 27, 1930, in the Restaurant Patria (Barcelona) but soon he learned about his error, and the grave consequences of that speech.

In May, 1937, Azaña wrote in his diary: "las muchas y muy enormes y escandalosas [...] pruebas de insolidaridad y despego, de hostilidad, de 'chantajismo' que la política catalana ha dado frente al gobierno de la República".

And then he added: "Y si esas gentes van a descuartizar a España, prefiero a Franco. Con Franco ya nos entenderíamos nosotros, o nuestros hijos, o quien fuere, pero estos hombres son inaguantables. Acabarían por dar la razón a Franco".

[icebraining]

My point is that even a single guy changes his opinion. It's not reasonable to present it as representative of a full system of government. Go ask Rajoy if his opinions represent the whole system :)

EDIT: Also, those quotes just show that the iconoclast and rebellions attitude of Catalonia against the central government is quite old, and not just an invention of some corrupt politicians to divert attention :)

[notspanishflu]

One thing doesn't rule out the other.

Also 80 years is a lot or not.

[icebraining]

Well, that's just one case, there are older ones: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalan_revolt

Pau Claris, head of the Generalitat of Catalonia, called the politician members of the all Principality in order to form a Junta de Braços or Braços Generals (General Estates), a consultive body. (...) This assembly, which worked with individual voting, began to create and apply various revolutionary measures (...), while the tension with the monarchy grew.

Echoes of the past :)