[sidlls]

I don't know what's more funny (or sad): that you think engineers are no longer as looked down on or compensated at a lower rate than their "work" should otherwise merit or that you seem to have completely missed the part about "equal experience" in your haste to poohpooh them that desire equal treatment for it as inferior.

[zaptheimpaler]

Thanks for the condescension sensei.

I think your position is equal work experience should merit equal pay.

You seem to have missed my point also - experience outside work also counts as experience. And millions of things besides experience determine your salary. So we should not be so quick to assume that 2 people with the same years of experience "should" merit equal pay - its obviously false.

If all people with equal work experience are simply equal in the value they bring to the company then why do we conduct interviews or ask for resumes or anything? Lets just set everyone's salaries to "$100K + 10K * (years worked)" no?

[linkregister]

Are you saying that the plaintiffs in this case didn't do side projects?

[watwut]

Well, majority of software developers don't do side projects, especially not those in high paid difficult positions. Those people put all strength they have into work itself. Employers don't even care all that much about side projects. So, it is safe bet.

This whole thread is stupid red herring. It has nothing to do with reality of working in corporation. It has zero to do with skills required in those high positions - just about only reusable from teenage years is linux internals.

It is basically assumption that a.) women are surely lazier b.) since they are girls they did not played with boy toys c.) if you discovered tech as part education instead of in playroom you can't be good.

[kamaal]

>>Well, majority of software developers don't do side projects

Most do. The fact that bulk of the software infrastructure from tools to top notch production software is open source says something.

>>especially not those in high paid difficult positions.

If its really about money, then there are better ways to get paid in a software company.

>>Those people put all strength they have into work itself.

Which is often a placeholder for a side project.

>>Employers don't even care all that much about side projects. So, it is safe bet.

But doing these projects does make you a fairly good programmer, and you tend to gravitate towards valuable work and hence good pay.

>>just about only reusable from teenage years is linux internals.

Bad news. Starting early matters. Want to build a good retirement fund? Want to play big leagues sports? Want to be a concert musician? Want to be a doctor? In fact want to be big in anything? Most certainly you have to start early.

>>It is basically assumption that...

Nobody made such an assumption. We only said a particular group A(mostly nerds) starts early and works hard. What the other group is for them to decide.

Note, Nerds is a group of people irrespective of gender, race, or other identity(even nationality or religion).

It just comes down to one thing. You can't progress beyond a point without work. Reservations only take you that far.

[watwut]

Most open source is paid work, according to statistics. That not a bad thing, why would you want that work unrewarded. Then there is a bulk done by people on universities who have time - not employed as software developers.

Moreover, even if open source would be written as side projects mostly, it is still just a tiny part of all software out there.

You assume they are lazy, for no reason. No, not just nerds work hard. No, not all nerds work hard - many spend majority of time playing with something easy they like. In particular, many nerds are unwilling to learn what they don't like.

As for your bad news starting early matters, it don't. I am old enough to have seen where people ends. Many men stared later or changed career and it was no disadvantage after initial year or so.

I personally have all the things you talk about as necessary advantage. They are not and that is not even bad thing. The only difference is that I am not as bitter as rest of thread who want reward for being associated with them (I bet they were not young geniuses they want themselves to be) while real world does not work like that. The other annoying thing is that you would assume I don't have them, cause I am women whole dudes who changed careers yesterday are assumed to be interested since childhood no matter what facts are.

[astura]

Most full time developers have side projects? I find that hard to believe. If you said "most single, childless, under 28 year old developers living in San Francisco have side projects" then that's more believable. Most people don't have time to go to work all day then come home to do unpaid work.

Open source isn't always someone's side project. Lots (most?) open source is professional paid work.

[linkregister]

Thank you for getting to the crux of the issue. It is simple gate keeping.

Indeed, startup founders and great engineers get absorbed in their work and spend time on it.

[kamaal]

>>that desire equal treatment for it as inferior.

The kind of equality that you are aiming for is meaningless, it doesn't exist and attempts to create this have lead to far bigger problems than they have tried to solve.

This is the equivalent of asking why we don't handover gold, silver and bronze medals to the people who came last in the race instead of the top 3. This isn't discrimination. The sheer concept of effort vs reward in human psychology is designed such that "Humans are unequal by merit of our actions"

Also the fact that some people are better than others is here to stay and not just restricted to software. Most of us are not going to be Neil Armstrong or Richard Feynman. That's not discrimination.

There is only equality of access and opportunity. Outcomes are not going to be equal.