[throwaway8591]

Indeed. How rich would Finland, Sweden, Austria, and Poland really be today had they never colonized Africa or subjugated and enslaved its industrious inhabitants, and how rich would Ethiopia be if it had been spared from the ravages of European rapacity?

[mcv]

It's hard to say. Some countries were rich before they were colonised and had all their riches stolen, others were poor to begin with. Ethiopia is actually often mentioned as the only country in Africa that wasn't colonised (though that's not entirely true), and has been rich and powerful in the past, but it poor now. One of the poorest countries in Africa, Mali, was once the home of one of the richest empires ever.

China has been the richest and most powerful countries in the world for 2000 years before European nations crippled it in the Opium Wars.

Finland was never a colonial power, by the way. Sweden was, but Finland was still largely tribal a bit over a century ago, and was kind of a colony of Sweden and Russia alternately. The rise of Finland to one of the most civilised countries in the world over the period of a century is really interesting.

I fear racism is also a big factor. White people in Finland are more likely to get a break from other white people than black people in Ethiopia are.

But culture is also a big factor. In Europe, the most powerful economies are in the traditionally protestant north, whereas the Catholic south tends to have somewhat weaker economies. But why? And why were Muslim countries rich, powerful and advanced in the Middle Ages, and now not anymore?

[distances]

> Ethiopia is actually often mentioned as the only country in Africa that wasn't colonised

> Finland was never a colonial power, by the way.

That was the whole sarcastically made point of the grandparent comment. Rich non-colonizing states vs. poor non-colonized states.

[mcv]

You're probably right, but the grandparent wasn't entirely correct. Sweden has had colonies in both Africa and the Caribbean, and Ethiopia has been colonised, although both for only a fairly short period.

Colonisation obviously does play a role. It's ridiculous to claim that pillaging or oppressing another country doesn't hurt it, nor enrich the country that takes the profits. But it's not remotely the only factor at play. And the further in the past some events are, the more they get overshadowed by more recent history. I don't think Italy has much remaining benefit from the slaves the Roman Empire took from the Kelts they conquered.

[kbart]

Neither Finland nor Poland had any colonies nor they had "enslaved its industrious inhabitants". So your example itself counters your point that colonization and enslavement are necessary for prosperity of countries.

[tim333]

The European countries would quite likely be similarly rich if - if you look at such countries that didn't have colonies like Switzerland or Ireland, they've done ok.