[ironix]

I'm going on a trip to Canada within the next month, from the US, as a US citizen.

I want to be let into Canada without issue, so am taking a burner smartphone connected to a non-critical gmail account that is plausibly-maybe my "real" personal one. But not really. The maximum threat to me is detention, or more likely, refused entry. If I am asked to unlock the device, I will.

Crossing back into the US, I am less concerned. If I am asked to unlock the device, I will NOT. The maximum threat to me is semi-indefinite detention, and I know at the end of it, I can reach out to the EFF to seek representation in a larger action.

Does anyone else have any tips/tricks/ideas here? I realize trying to subvert any Canadian border search is not a good idea, but it's a good middle-grounds vs. "don't go to Canada" or "give them all your private data", I think. On the other hand, I am willing to be more stringent with the US border because (A) I am a citizen, I cannot be refused entry, and (B) this is a cause I would like to participate in, so invite any negative outcome caused by my refusal to unlock the device or share any logins.

[iamatworknow]

>Does anyone else have any tips/tricks/ideas here?

The trick is to not worry about it so much. In fact, I'd say that worrying and looking nervous would make it more likely that you would be searched.

I live on the US/Canadian border (on the US side) and go over probably 2 or 3 times per month. I regularly drive from New York state to Ottawa (going through Canadian customs), then fly into the US (through US customs) and then back again through Canada (Canadian customs again) driving home to the US (US customs again) with no problems. It's closer than the nearest commercial airport to me in the US and even with the customs delay, much more convenient. I also just go over to have fun in Ottawa and Montreal regularly.

My vehicle has been searched 3 times in probably 6 years. My phone has always stayed with me, in my pocket, un-searched.

I have only ever personally heard of one case of someone having their electronics searched, and the extent of the search was Canadian customs using the Windows search to look for files with "boy" or "girl" in the filename -- presumably looking for child porn.

To be clear, I'm not saying this doesn't ever happen, or that it will 100% never happen to you, but the chances are very, very slim that they'll even ask you more than a few questions, let alone do any sort of search. Your mileage may vary, of course.

[iamatworknow]

To perhaps back my point up even further, look at the link that the EFF posted showing CBP's data:

https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/national-media-release/cbp-rele...

189,594,422 people processed at the US border between October 2016 and March 2017 with 14,993 electronics searches.

0.008% of people processed had electronics searched.

[Canada]

That would mean that in all of the ports of entry to the United States only 82 phones per day were searched. That's absolutely ridiculous. There are approximately that many international airports. Just airports. Nevermind the enormous flow of land traffic with Canada and Mexico or all sea traffic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_international_airports...

CBP is claiming that they searched, on average, less than one phone per day in each airport? Give me a break.

Their claim is probably the number of times they've done some kind of deep analysis with forensic tools. Surely the number of times a border guard casually looked through emails and texts is far higher.

[snowwrestler]

EDIT: I'll leave my comment below up for the record, but I'm probably wrong, and Canada above is probably right. CBP is not clear about what kind of "searches" they are counting in these stats, and they could well be only counting forensic searches, not cursory (the quick scroll through).

---------

That number sounds reasonable to me. CBP has no reason to hide their activities because they believe they are faithfully enforcing the law.

Electronic searches are not something agents do casually; federal agents do very few things casually on the clock. They're far too busy.

Typically it has to be either a decision in advance (targeting a specific person) or a big set of warning signals at once that create a suspicious profile.

I could be wrong about this; I don't have personal experience. But I've discussed these sorts of cases with friends who are federal agents and prosecutors.

[Borealid]

There is something I don't understand about this whole debate: why is it considered a "search" of a phone when data is decrypted or exfiltrated?

If one "searches" a safe, and finds inside a paper with some random characters on it, the safe has been searched. The paper was there, it was discovered, the interior of the safe was viewed. The meaning of the characters may not be understood, but the safe was searched.

If one "searches" a phone, and finds inside some random pattern of bits, why is the search "not completed" until the bits are deciphered into something the agent understands?

It seems to me that the act of searching doesn't imply understanding what was found, yet for some reason all the public discourse - including legal analysis! - is predicated on the idea that "searching" a phone means deciphering its digital contents.

[morgante]

> CBP has no reason to hide their activities because they believe they are faithfully enforcing the law.

It is far from settled that searching the electronic records of citizens just because they're crossing a border is a faithful enforcement of the law. That's precisely what this lawsuit aims to disprove.

That being said, I agree that the number is likely accurate. CBP is not regularly searching electronic devices.

[iamatworknow]

What evidence do you have that they're trying to mislead us other than "governments and law enforcement are bad so they're probably lying"?

[horsecaptin]

Out of the number of people who crossed, how many were flagged for additional questioning? Out of those flagged, how many were carrying a cell-phone / laptop across the border?

[5ilv3r]

Looking at the list of people represented, I'm lead to believe there is a large chance of racial profiling being involved.

[CWuestefeld]

I'm lead to believe there is a large chance of racial profiling being involved.

On whose part? The border patrol, so that the pool of potential plaintiffs is large? Or by the EFF and ACLU, choosing a diversity of plaintiffs to represent?

[iamatworknow]

Absolutely a possibility.

[dawnerd]

Going into Canada as a US citizen is usually super easy anyways. Last few times I've been across it was maybe two questions, that's it.

[iamatworknow]

It's always been easy for me, too. I recently got a Nexus card which makes it so I don't even have to talk to a real person when arriving in Canada (at least via air). Literally just two questions in a kiosk and hand someone a receipt. Of course that means the governments of Canada and the US did a background check and recorded my fingerprints and retinas, but I'm fine with that, personally.

[dawnerd]

I have global entry and feel the same. On the application they didn't ask for anything they didn't already have so it wasn't a big deal. Well worth it considering the included pre check.

[iamatworknow]

Agreed. In fact Nexus, which includes Global Entry and PreCheck costs less than PreCheck alone ($50/5 years versus $85/5 years).

[ue_]

You know, I have to say something about this:

>I have only ever personally heard of one case of someone having their electronics searched, and the extent of the search was Canadian customs using the Windows search to look for files with "boy" or "girl" in the filename -- presumably looking for child porn.

This is horrible - not beacuse of the child porn aspect, but because Canada has draconian laws (though so do Britain, Aus and NZ) which mean that drawings are prohibited. Drawings of fictional characters, that is. I read a story, though mere anectode, I hope it is relevant - about a man who was arrested beacuse they found they found drawings in his cache. He didn't even like the material. A US citizen that was crossing the border and searched beacuse he looked "suspicious".

We should not excuse this violation of freedom of expression just because it happens/happened at the border. Canada has laws that it deserves to be called out on.

[Asooka]

USA and Canada are democracies. The people (majority of people (actually the people claiming to represent the majority)) have spoken - fictional drawings of children are to be treated as crimeful as real ones. Court adjourned.

[ue_]

>The people (majority of people (actually the people claiming to represent the majority)) have spoken

Really, have they? Is there a poll showing that? And does agreement on laws mean that the laws are therefore not draconian? I'm sure many in, for example, Saudi Arabia would think that homosexuality should be prohbited. Does this mean that it should be that way?

>fictional drawings of children are to be treated as crimeful as real ones

That's not what the law says.

[mindslight]

> I realize trying to subvert any Canadian border search is not a good idea

Erm, I don't see how you'd be "subverting" the search. The purpose of a border search is to examine what you're bringing into the country. If you smoke marijuana at home but (prudently) don't try to bring some into Canada, that isn't subverting their search.

The latest time I returned to into the USSA (a while ago), I had an old laptop that I zeroed out the hard drive and physically moved it out of the computer. I figured this would leave the thugs with less justification to steal my things. However, I lucked out and was not actually subjected to an invasive inspection.

Also, I don't know what you've previously used this burner phone for, but any flash filesystem won't actually erase things when you delete them.

[curiousgal]

$100 says nothing is going to happen. This is selection bias at its best, as you only hear about the people getting their devices searched not the ones crossing easily. The chances of this happening to you are slim to none.

I am not saying no one should be worried, I am just saying OP should not.

[tryingagainbro]

>> The maximum threat to me is semi-indefinite detention

Thanks for willing to take one for the team but be prepared to be put on a "troublemaker" list and be harassed, time and time again at border crossings.

[ironix]

I am curious, is it possible that countries / regions share such lists? i.e. would refusing to comply with a digital search at the US border possibly affect me in EU?

[nrb]

Given the intelligence alliances that we know exist and the likely many that we aren't aware of, it's not only possible but probable.

[3pt14159]

Just apply for Nexus. You're harmless. They'll do supreme vetting once and you'll avoid any stupid power tripping boarder guards after that. Since I got that I've spent under 5 mins at the boarder each time.

[Iv]

My solution has been to not go to the US, but that is not always doable.

An interesting solution is to give something else to the border to worry about. Something perfectly legal but that would focus their attention. Like a perfectly registered and legally transported gun. Or some flour in plastic bags. Or a bottle of whiskey.

[nucleardog]

As a guy that's had my phone searched by customs a dozen times now, been put in windowless rooms while my car was tossed, held for four hours in the same room as my car while they pulled panels off, etc...

I had a lot fewer issues crossing the border once I stopped being so organized.

When I checked in for my flight I didn't have my passport itself on me, just the number. The airline I was using asked for an expiration date. I remembered the month and year but not the day... So I just picked a day. When I cleared customs, the guy was so busy correcting the expiration date on the computer that he wasn't even listening to my answer to his questions.

On the way back, I was switching airlines, and the originating airline was unable to print me a boarding pass for the flight they'd put me on. When I got to customs and they asked for paperwork, they also asked for my boarding pass for my final flight. When I didn't have one, they sent me to get one from the airline and then literally waved me through when I came back.

Once I noticed this, I started to think back... The least hassle I've had clearing security was when I did dumb things like leave a lighter in my pocket when I went to the airport. As soon as they found the lighter, they just took it away and admonished me and sent me on my way.

For the most part, if you haven't given them a reason to be suspicious, once they find something it seems they stop looking.

[TheSpiceIsLife]

If you feel strongly about the cause, maybe you can just donate to the EFF and ACLU rather than possibly causing yourself a bad day.