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by lkrubner 3209 days ago
You bring up a point that was discussed 35 days ago:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14925899

Tarikyn said: "Most developers I knew in person didn't care about CSS or didn't 'get' it."

Part of my response was:

"Some people looked at the chaos of non-standard HTML and decided the Web was successful because it had been broken from the beginning, and it had learned to work well while broken. I reached a different conclusion. It became clear to me that what developers wanted to do simply had nothing to do with HTTP/HTML. We don't yet have the technology to do what developers want to do. HTML was an interesting experiment, but it suffered from a dual mandate. Sir Tim Berners Lee wanted HTML to both structure data and also present it in graphical form. Almost from the start, developers were conflicted about which mandate they should obey, but the preference, since at least 1993, if not earlier, was to give priority to the visual. For all practical purposes, developers saw HTTP/HTML as GUI for IP/TCP. Previous IP/TCP technologies (email, gopher, ftp) had lacked a visual component, but HTML finally offered a standard way to send things over Internet and format the end result visually (emphasis on "standard"; I could insert an aside here about X window systems and some cool software of that era, but every app implemented their own ideas about visual presentation. X-Emacs, for instance, had its own system for visual formatting over a network)."

The point is, HTML was an interesting experiment, but we now know that it doesn't work for what developers want to build. So it is time to get rid of HTML and move on to something better.

2 comments

Developers can build whatever they want with the html/css/javascript stack we have today, and they have.

Its up to you whether or not you write semantically pure html using display agnostic <div>, <article> etc. structural elements and only use css for styling. That is, after all, what they are for.

You can have what you want by simply pretending that browsers do not have default rendering rules, and not use the html elements that are arguably presentation only things, like <h1>, <table> etc.

HTML wasn't intended as an application platform, but for hyperlinked documents. That developers are using browsers for apps has economical reasons (eg. end users not willing to pay for software). That HTML isn't a good fit for a purpose it never was intended for is hardly TBL's fault, is it?