[prgmatic]

I hate to be "that guy" but, I don't think this is really what people want their kids reading:

"SMUGGLER: Do you like booze?

CITIZEN: Sure I do. And who are you?

SMUGGLER: I'm the person who will sell you some booze.

CITIZEN: What about cigarettes?

SMUGGLERS: Sure thing. Cheap Ukrainian variety for $1 a pack. Also Slovenian Mariboro brand."

[oskarth]

> I hate to be "that guy" but, I don't think this is really what people want their kids reading:

So don't be the that guy. Kids are a lot tougher than what the current helicopter parent trend would have you believe. Would you forbid your kids from reading something like Tintin too? There's no shortage of "glorification" of alcohol there - Captain Haddock's alcoholism is a recurring theme.

[mstade]

I grew up on the Tintin series – love it! Also Asterix. I mean, magic potion that gives you super human strength, to take out the Romans? Yeah.

Kids are smarter than we give them credit for. I think maybe we need to just give them the space to figure shit out on their own.

[theoh]

Another angle is: do you want your kid's first encounter with the idea of Ukraine or Slovenia to be a disparaging/pejorative stereotype?

Even if it was a real factual representation it might encourage the kid to pick up or repeat unhealthy attitudes. My (european) childhood experience was definitely like that at times, race being the major topic about which slurs were innocently propagated by kids who didn't know any better...

[bloaf]

http://www.lettersofnote.com/2012/03/i-am-very-real.html

>It is true that some of the characters speak coarsely. That is because people speak coarsely in real life. Especially soldiers and hardworking men speak coarsely, and even our most sheltered children know that. And we all know, too, that those words really don’t damage children much. They didn’t damage us when we were young. It was evil deeds and lying that hurt us.

[Xeoncross]

> those words really don’t damage children much

Wait, who is this? Can they verify this claim? What does "much" mean anyway? Why damage children at all by choice?

[Zarel]

Did you click on the linked source? It says it was written by Kurt Vonnegut, who is arguing that the value of accurately depicting reality to students is more important than protecting them from whatever imagined risk of reading harsh language there is.

[jacalata]

The rest of the questions seem valid though.

[mikeash]

They are, but they're equally valid the other way. Why start with the assumption that Puritan sensibilities are OK and require everything else to prove itself?

[jacalata]

Because Vonnegut made an affirmative claim that this doesn't hurt children, and the comment was challenging that claim. I didn't notice anyone making a claim that it definitely does hurt children.

[norswap]

Are they? I have a deep seated feeling that this is a troll question: does the author himself really believe that coarse language hurts? Does anyone believe that when they stop and think about it?

Not every statement should require extended proofs. It's probably the case that you can't think of any children being hurt by coarse language, nor of having heard of any reporting of this. Absence of evidence is evidence of absence.

[bloaf]

I apologize that Vonnegut wrote his letter at a time before the internet made defensive writers of us all.

https://pchiusano.github.io/2014-10-11/defensive-writing.htm...

[adammenges]

I'm rereading the Harry Potter books, they get _dark_. Blood, death, and stabbing all happened in just what I read yesterday.

[bsder]

If you think Harry Potter is bad, let them read the Holy Bible cover to cover.

[baby]

We were reading the uncensored version of Robinson Crusoe when were kids for giggles (fucking trees, fucking goats, lots of fucking things).

Or the George Sand letter: http://ciphermysteries.com/2010/05/16/george-sands-cryptogra...

[snakeanus]

The characters are supposed to grow along with the audience in the Harry Potter to my knowledge.

[dpc59]

Nothing says healthy life for a 11 year old like living with your abusive aunt and uncle and having to fight the dark wizard that killed your parents.

[baby]

That's when the books were released every other year, now that all the books are out you can probably read them in a few weeks.

I definitely grew up along the characters though :)

[__s]

A lot of people don't want their kids reading Harry Potter

[ericzawo]

A lot of parents don't want kids going on the internet and looking at violence or porn, But it will definitely happen. May as well encourage positive things like literature. Also the Harry Potter series is full of themes around heroism, friendship, perseverance, and other qualities you'd wish your children have. I can't wait to reread the series for my kids.

[baby]

Yeah and these people are insane and probably more toxic for their children than anything they're trying to ban. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_debates_over_the_Har...

[Rjevski]

The story doesn't condone nor endorse those things, so I see no problem. I don't see anything wrong with kids knowing there are bad things in this world - they're gonna discover it anyway sooner or later.

[andrewfromx]

is the Road to adulthood a slow freeway on-ramp that you have from 0-18 to get up to 65 MPH, or at 18 age are you dropped in the fast lane with no experience going even close to 65?

[toeicnw2848]

Depends on which religion you grew up with. If you're fairly secular, it's gradual. If you're a Mormon, you get pushed out of a car doing 90.

[andrewfromx]

^ exactly. And why do so many religious parents think that's going to work for their kid?

[txru]

> Slovenian Mariboro

That is a clever reference.

[selimthegrim]

Nice, I missed that one first time around too

[msla]

Depends on how old the kids are. Are you necessarily assuming pre-teen?

[slavik81]

Pre-teen is a pretty broad category. A normal twelve-year-old is in Grade 7.

That was the year I read Shōgun, which is basically your run-of-the-mill adult fiction novel. The content was never a concern, despite making the objections raised here look trivial in comparison.

Frankly, I'm not sure there's any age at which mere references to alcohol are age-inappropriate, but if there is, it must be quite young.

[tomxor]

I don't think this guys is trying to win any PC competitions, just look at his profile image :P https://avatars1.githubusercontent.com/u/305718?v=4&s=400

But if i had kids i'd not blinding them with a PC view of the world.

Kids or not, these are fun little stories even for adult non-cryptographers.

[hashbig]

And what does his profile photo have to do with being PC?

[tomxor]

cmon he totally looks stoned. I'm not judging, i just find it amusing :P

[jszymborski]

Is smoking not PC now? 0_o

[lucideer]

I'm not too sure about the PC status of the act of smoking, in isolation, but I would say that presenting yourself to kids as an educating figure who smokes is probably seen as less than PC to some.

[Quarrelsome]

what about being obese (for the sake of argument)?

[lucideer]

Little different since one is an action, the other a state/symptom/result/outcome.

I guess there's an argument to be made against promoting/normalising activities that cause obesity, but I'd say current societal norms are set up to demonise smoking a lot more strongly.

[kilceem]

its a double edged sword. teach good morals and this(encryption) also teaches you can not trust everyone.