[angersock]

I mean, that's the thing, right? You can't just give them up, short of moving away to the Libertarian paradise of Mogadishu or whatever.

Like, it's easy to say "well if somehow all of the public goods I enjoy were taken over by private companies then I'd be happy to pay them instead of taxes", but such a changeover doesn't really happen--you end up "freeloading" on the public dole until this future comes to pass.

And again, I know you aren't making this argument. It's just really annoying to have to hear it from otherwise intelligent friends when it comes up.

(Also, why the heck anybody would want to live in a world without a guarantee of basic services and rights is beyond me.)

[briandear]

Most libertarians aren’t opposed to government. For expample, most libertarians would agree that government is necessary as a means to enforce contracts. Somalia has no civil justice system of note, so Mogadishu is hardly a libertarian paradise.

Libertarianism is about the rights of an individual to engage in transactions they find beneficial. However, libertarianism is not about the right to infringe on others’ rights to do the same.

Libertarians support individual rights at a vastly greater level than anyone else. In collectivism, there are no individual rights or at least they are secondary to collective rights.

[tacomonstrous]

I really don't understand how libertarianism doesn't collapse at first contact with actual human beings.

>Libertarianism is about the rights of an individual to engage in transactions they find beneficial.

>Libertarians support individual rights at a vastly greater level than anyone else

And who protects these rights? Who defines them? Is it really possible for everybody's rights to be protected simultaneously (whatever those rights may be)? Who decides ownership? Who guarantees the avenues for beneficial trade?

The rule of law cannot be enforced without an element of coercion. The best we can hope to do is to make it as enlightened as we can.

[jahaja]

It's basically a modern version of the divine right of kings.