[drizzzler]

It's funny how thick HNers are about Bitcoin. I believe it's evidence of the sort of passive conservatism of the tech community. Bitcoin is some utopian shit, the decentralized technology dream that has a ton of traction, yet many of you just can't seem to get behind it. Is it because YC is an ultra capitalistic investment fund and Bitcoin is just too anarchist for its fanboys?

For all the people out there saying, "I cant find a use case", my question to you is, have you ever used it?!

If you have, did you notice that there wasn't a middleman taking a cut when you sent the money? I mean, do you have any fucking idea how much money businesses pay to the credit card companies?

Get on board guys.

[GhostVII]

I just don't see what benefits Bitcoin gives to me over a regular bank.

First of all because it is decentralised, it is much less scalable than the current system, so I don't think it is going to be able to replace regular banking anytime soon (although I don't know a tonne about the scalability issues).

Also I like to have a centralised system, because if my bitcoin gets stolen/I screw up and lose it, it is gone forever. If my money gets stolen somehow, I call up the bank and they reverse the charges. Having a central authority is also pretty nice because they also give me lots of other benefits like credit card rewards, making it really easy to move my money around into different savings accounts or investments, etc. And regular currencies are also backed by the government, so are incredibly stable, unlike Bitcoin which changes values very quickly.

Bitcoin is also deflationary, which is a bad trait for a currency to have, as it discourages investment, and encourages people to hoard money instead of spending it.

I'm sure there are use cases for Bitcoin, but I don't think it is "some utopian shit", since the current system works super well for most people.

[Shorel]

Current system works well for most people in a handful of well developed countries. Bitcoin is a global phenomenon.

[rizalp]

I'm very much agree to this, especially the deflationary part. Current Bitcoin pricing seems to favor the early `investors`, and fluctuate too much. That is not acceptable for use as money, which must store a stable value for a long time...

[urza]

US Dollar lost 95% of it's purchasing power over the last century, so much for "must store a stable value for a long time".

The wealth distribution of dollar is based on how many more people your grandfather killed than my grandfather. I don't have any problem with currency where initial distribution rewards people who took investment risks because they saw potential in innovative new technology.

And volatility - volatility in bitcoin is actually smaller every year, and this trend will continue. And btw volatility is natural and healthy. It's when something is not moving that you should be worried.

[forthefuture]

The best case scenario for Bitcoin is reaching a consistent price for the rest of its lifetime. That scenario means there's no reason to "invest" in it because ideally it would never change in value.

Only people trying to cash out need people buying in. If you were really invested in the long term you'd rather people not buy in so you can buy more at a lower price.

Bitcoin also has fees. The only reason the fees are lower than credit cards are because people in China can afford to burn electricity at a loss just to turn their Chinese money into anything else.

You still have to pay taxes on the capital gains. And you can't pay taxes in Bitcoin.

[tradersam]

I don't agree.

The best case scenario for bitcoin is it becoming the de facto monetary standard, meaning there would be no reason to buy or cash out, as everything would be priced in bitcoin.

[rizalp]

I don't agree with you

Bitcoin will never replace current fiat money as it is inherently flawed: price fluctuate too much, and favor early owner of it.

[tradersam]

> as it is inherently flawed: price fluctuate too much, and favor early owner of it.

These aren't flaws, welcome to economics, man. Once bitcoin gains enough things will be priced in BTC, so fluctuation won't be an issue.

Deflationary economics benefit the savers, while inflationary economics benefit the spenders. Just because bitcoin's economic model isn't something you're used to or like doesn't mean it is 'inherently flawed'.

[rizalp]

It is flawed because the pool of currency is limited. What happen when our economy grows fast, but then there's not enough BTC to support it? Price will decrease and benefit the savers, sure. But then many people will prefer to save instead of spending, which will not fuel the economy

[urza]

"which will not fuel the economy"

So you mean, like, people will not waste nature's resources for things they don't really need? Oh, what a tragedy!

[leereeves]

And that will never happen for the reason just stated: you can't pay taxes in Bitcoin.

[aussieguy1234]

At the moment. Surely govts will accept cryptocurrency for paying taxes at some point.

[wakeywakeywakey]

The reason to want people to buy in is to grow the space and incentivise vendors to build sophisticated services for it. Like with self-driving cars, a large herd benefits all members.

[prostoalex]

> did you notice that there wasn't a middleman taking a cut when you sent the money? I mean, do you have any fucking idea how much money businesses pay to the credit card companies

This guy noticed https://www.wsj.com/articles/why-you-wont-be-buying-a-coffee...

"High fees make it impractical to use bitcoin as a day-to-day currency. Paying a $5 fee to send $10,000 bitcoin isn’t a big deal, but it’s hard to justify buying a cup of coffee with bitcoin if the transaction costs more than the coffee."

Realistically, though, from the consumer standpoint Bitcoin is an electronic payments network analogous to credit cards that

1) Takes longer time to confirm (great news when you're standing in a checkout line).

2) Does not have a third party to resolve conflicts and disputes between the consumer and unscrupulous merchant or a straight out scammer.

3) Does not have a rollback mechanism in case of an unauthorized or fraudulent transaction.

4) Does not offer consumer-side rewards - cashback, airline miles, points - for usage.

Where do I sign up?

[Cozumel]

> "High fees make it impractical to use bitcoin as a day-to-day currency. Paying a $5 fee to send $10,000 bitcoin isn’t a big deal, but it’s hard to justify buying a cup of coffee with bitcoin if the transaction costs more than the coffee."

That's what the new Lighting network is for ( https://lightning.network/ )

[MicroBerto]

It's because I can't use it to do business with anyone in my market, I can't buy anything I want with it, it's volatile, and it's an absurd waste of energy.

Enjoy the run, but sell at the right times because ultimately it will end in some form of tragedy.

[srge]

You can buy everything you want with the US dollar but given the abyssal debt of the US government, one could think it will also end in tragedy.

[rizalp]

Only if the US lost its Political Power. Currently the USD still holds its value because OPEC standardize on using it for the Oil Currency (Petrodollar), and early aggressive lending to the third world country with USD.

When electric cars become mainstream, I expect there will be a turmoil in the USD

[cyphunk]

heh, anarchist? In the course of perhaps 2 or 3 years Bitcoin has turned more anarchists I know into greedy capitalists than anything else over my entire lifetime.

HN is certainly "on board" as ycombinator and affiliates invests in various blockchain retailed companies

[ikeboy]

I've used it and noticed how miners will only include your transaction in a reasonable length of time if you pay a fee, and even that is artificially low due to the subsidy.

[cheez]

Except anyone can figure out where my money comes from and where it goes. No thanks!

[cyphunk]

It still blows my mind that this isn't a bigger issue. Trying to retain any privacy with Bitcoin is an arduous process.

[omarchowdhury]

Okay. So I'm anyone. How am I going to know what your addresses are? Starting from where I am right now all the way over here. You did say anyone.

[cyphunk]

the first time you ever pay anyone for anything the probability that this person can determine your entire net worth is much much higher than if you were to use any other means of value exchange (Cash, credit, check, etc).

[omarchowdhury]

You're argument rests on the assumption that people are putting their entire, or close to entire net worth into BTC.

[cyphunk]

I'm playing on the fantasy that Bitcoin or similar could ever be a predominant means of value exchange or storage. It's a fantasy many hold.

[parenthephobia]

How are miners fees practically different from credit card companies' transaction fees?

[deweller]

The tone of this comment is harsh and inflammatory. But I agree with the sentiment.

The tech is genuinely interesting and certainly doesn't lack hype. That is usually a formula for positive comments on Hacker News. So I'm genuinely curious why so many users here are against Bitcoin.

Is it because they didn't buy in early and want to justify missing the boat? Does it make people feel their own startup is somehow less relevant? Does it threaten the traditional VC funding model?

[johnwheeler]

> Is it because they didn't buy in early and want to justify missing the boat?

Not one bit. It's because people are losing their heads over it, it's got classic bubble written all over it, and you've got people who've made money and think they're all the wiser for it.

They arrogantly carry a sentiment that detractors are just jealous. Human nature to do that--I get it.

There's a saying I heard, something like "Sure, you made a lot of money buying the stocks of tobacco companies. So what? You're still an asshole."

In my mind, buying Bitcoin is like shorting the US financial system with the idea that it sucks and should to hell anyway. But, our system with all it's flaws works pretty damn well. It shouldn't be taken for granted and bet against.

[grizzles]

I don't like it because it's bad for the environment.

Eventually someone like Vanguard will come along and offer a blockchain with real value behind it. After this, all the hype around bitcoin will just look embarrassing in the aftermath.

The SEC was useful when information was hard to come by, but now it's just standing in the way of progress.

[vilmosi]

>>> If you have, did you notice that there wasn't a middleman taking a cut when you sent the money?

Not an issue for me I'm afraid (UK).