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by Lyle-Cantor 3224 days ago
Patent troll vs the government that enforces patent law, no matter who wins we lose.
1 comments

That is incorrect. If the tax man wins everybody wins.

People downvoting this are cordially encouraged to have a look at countries that have no taxes.

> People downvoting this are cordially encouraged to have a look at countries that have no taxes.

No one is thinking there should be no taxation, just that there's a sizable chance here that the government is in the wrong. To reverse your argument: please point me to this magical utopia where the government is always right and they never abuse their powers.

edited the structure

Your inverse isn't correct. The correct inverse would be to look at the countries that do have tax.

Let's look at Guinea

There's the tax information:

http://www.doingbusiness.org/data/exploreeconomies/guinea/pa...

Oh by the way it's the poorest country in the world 2017.

I did take a look at what jacquesm suggested and here is a list of countries that have no income tax.

* United Arab Emirates

* Oman

* Bahrain

* Qatar

* Saudi Arabia

* Kuwait

* Bermuda

* Cayman Islands

* The Bahamas

* Brunei

Now you could argue that the countries are rich countries and the only ones doing well are the native citizens or that two of them are tax havens for the rich. But hey that's not what he said.

And the moral of the story? Unquantified generic statements are usually bad. Don't do it. No matter who you are, don't do it.

You understand that I wasn't taking issue with the taxation point, right? Just that there is a possibility that this is a case of egregious government abuse of power, not a case of dodging taxes, therefore utilizing an argument based on the idea of no taxation was missing the point.

He also said "no taxes", not "no income taxes".

They're subsisting on taxes, just not income taxes. Half of those are living off of royalties on oil, the others from investment banking.
Switzerland is doing pretty good. It is the only country where I know the citizens say we have decided instead of the government has decided. Oh, and they do pay taxes.
Switzerland is not a model for how to run a typical country.
I never understand how people point to existing systems that are working for a country, and then make the (valid) point that the success of those policies can't necessarily be extrapolated to another country, but then (invalidly) believe that is a suficient statement to end the conversation.

Especially because those people often are talking about countries with some form of democratic socialism (where there are a number of strong success cases), and instead frequently put forward libertarianism - which is a completely untested government form in any country.

Switzerland sustains itself with a huge influx of foreign money by adopting policies attractive to the wealthy. That strategy can't be pursued by every nation on the planet.
I never understood that - why do people brag about cheating the tax man? I have to make up the difference, in either (very slightly) reduced services or higher taxes.

It always struck me as odd.

America does not spend it's taxes wisely. You can live in Canada for a similar tax load as a lot of people in California, yet not have universal healthcare, drive on roads that are in horrible conditions, deal with a horrible DMV, see a lot of obviously mentally ill people not being taken care of and live in unsafe conditions with a lot of bad school systems. There are also a lot of tax rules that are not nice to deal with that you don't have to deal with in Canada.

I think people don't mind taxes nearly as much if they feel like they are getting good value for their money. In the USA, you feel like your just getting shafted by the government half the time. In Canada not so much.

Because it's a "fuck you" to The Man™. A marginal several thousand or whatever is probably a fraction of the amount that's lost daily across the federal government due to negligence.
Is it just negligence or is there more to it than that?
It's the same reason people brag about other criminal endeavours, they want to brag about how smart they are and that they beat the system.
Presumably because you don't think those services are worth it or that the money is intelligently spent.

Personally, despite being aware of those issues, I take some manner of pride in the fact that I declare my side income properly and pay taxes on it, even when the people who paid me make an explicit point to pay with cash. I do my fair share, and that's why I feel entitled to whine about people doing a shoddy job at managing it. ;)

I respect you greatly. I fear you do not understand the United States government very well. Would you tell me why the USA needs more in taxes and where it excels in using those taxes?
I'll answer, though not OP.

Medicare is a pretty good example. As best I'm aware, that program's negotiated rate is less than the average private insurer for any given procedure, which is pretty impressive.

Public broadcasting tends to do quite a lot on a continually reduced budget.

There are a number of programs that are generally inefficient, and while I'd very much like to see greater efficiency, I'd also be very much ok seeing those existing programs have more money: education, infrastructure, Medicaid.

And I feel like most people who malign the government's inefficiency have either never been exposed to the inefficiencies in the private sector, or willfully turn a blind eye to those inefficiencies to make a point. In my experience, all large organizations/projects suffer from an incredible amount of waste - the government is just the poor jerk that deals with some of the largest possible organizations/projects and then has publish that inefficiency for everyone to point at and critique.

> negotiated rate is less than the average private insurer for any given procedure, which is pretty impressive

Not very impressive considering the average prices everybody else pays are artificially inflated by collusion among the medical industry middlemen. That's how we end up with $500 Epipens and then get a "steal" of a discount for only $300.

Taxation is policy. It matters not just in quantity (which you can rightfully question) but (more importantly) quality.

Would you say that legitimately pursuing a law-evader somehow inevitably leads to a police-state?

Not invariably, but it very well could. It depends on what the laws are. Same as here it depends on what the taxes are and how they are spent.
I don't think the US needs more taxes - just the opposite. But those we have should be evenly enforced.
If the tax man wins at taxing someone outside one's actual jurisdiction, everybody loses.

I'm probably going to be in a similar fight (albeit with far less money involved) due to me having moved to Nevada from California this year. I'm not looking forward to a Californian tax man trying to wring me for money despite me residing outside of California for the entire time I've been employed this year.

except that one guy