[MBCook]

> ...after thousands of years of human history proving it hasn't.

People couldn't manipulate millions of others as easily. You couldn't even REACH millions of people easily. And you had to be an actual authority figure to be given that power (perhaps a corrupt practice but still).

The communications landscape is quite different from 2000, remarkably different from 1980, extremely different from 1960, a world away from 1920, and bares very little resemblance to 1820.

How do things in the 1500s and 1600s say that thins aren't different?

You said thousands of years, how do the lessons of 2000 BC show us things haven't changed?

[wooter]

so how did Hitler rise? How did freedom of speech treat the West at the time? How did the opposite help Europe?

[cjslep]

Read "The Coming Of The Third Reich" by Richard J Evans to see how a very liberal democracy (Weimar Republic) was undermined:

1) No strong sense of "norms" in the culture

2) Manipulation of "Free Speech" into "Equal Speech"

3) Manipulation of a populist movement entirely built on nostalgia, the-jews-backstabbed-the-kaiser mythology, and "Germany First" so that they were far enough from Hitler that he could claim to not control them directly, but everyone else feared touching him would start a nationwide riot.

4) Political violence was normalized

5) Everything (churches, tennis clubs) had political party variants (ex: the socialist democrat Protestant church vs a communist one)

6) Terrorist attack on the Reichstag was a huge opportunity and turning point

There's a world of difference between the Internet of 2017 and Germany of 1932 that I really do suggest keeping them apart, and pick up the book.

[MBCook]

That was less than 100 years ago, after the invention of radio and newsreels; I'm not shire how it proves the point of unfettered free speech either.

I'd love to see examples of unfettered free speech from the 1600s or much MUCH easier.

[wooter]

Ancient Athenians adored freedom of speech. Naming a warship after the very concept.

399BC - Socrates speaks to jury at his trial: 'If you offered to let me off this time on condition I am not any longer to speak my mind... I should say to you, "Men of Athens, I shall obey the Gods rather than you."'

1516 - The Education of a Christian Prince by Erasmus. 'In a free state, tongues too should be free.'

In the 1600s, Galileo was executed for mere speech.

[MBCook]

Those are examples of free speech being liked.

Based on the post I was expecting examples of where free speech overcame the kind of 'there are my kind of lies so they must be true you liar' stuff we're seeing now.

[DrScump]

Galileo was executed?

[wooter]

Oops, sorry. Hoouse arrest for life and all texts burned. Here are a few executions & persecutions for speech: https://www.wired.com/2012/06/famous-persecuted-scientists/

[globuous]

Ooooof course the Godwin Law's still a thing...

Totalitarianism has emerged in societies lacking free speech as well. it's usually a lot more complicated than that.

Regulating free speech is indeed a slippery slope. But it might need to be regulated, I don't have no idea to be honest. A free market works best for the common good when it's regulated though, and I could see it being the same way for free speech. But a slippery slope it is.

[Daishiman]

Are you actually trying to say that Hitler rose to power because his speech was censored?

[wooter]

no

[quoquoquo]

So why use that Hitler example?

[sageikosa]

People can only manipulate millions of others easily when they are led to believe that they should be led.