[etplayer]

Ah, capitalism. Who wants the free association of individual producers as labourers when you can have wage labour and the cycle of capital crisis in a commodity economy backed up by the State acting on behalf of the property owners for the benefit of the rich to the detriment of the poor as Adam Smith noted even in the 18th century?

The free market was so called because it is free from control of its participants :)

Edit: To be clear, I'm arguing against capitalism as a manifestation of freedom, I'm sure we both agree that patents and copyrights should not exist in a free society, though.

[dmichulke]

Please note that free market capitalism (Austrian economics) is not at all in favor of patents (because it creates a temporary monopoly), though I think copyrights are still a thing (because you must not just copy somebody else's work and just claim it was yours).

You may think the above two reasons apply to both patents and copyrights but I will argue they don't once someone asks me for it :)

[scaryspooky]

Ah, socialism. Who wants a non-totalitarian state when you can just enslave the people like all the utopian socialist societies.

Oh, are we just being hyperbolic? A capitalist would say a socialist is wrong and this is cronyism. A socialist would say capitalism is wrong and this is cronyism.

[legulere]

You talk like soviet-style socialism is the only alternative to capitalism, while even your parent comment talked about the concept of the free market by Adam Smith which is heavily based on the economic model that the Arab countries had successfully for centuries. In China you even have history of a pro-market anti-capital system for millennia.

[etplayer]

I don't wish to excuse past totalitarian states, but the Communist hypothesis as Badiou writes is much broader than totalitarian forms of government; it is the job of modern day Marxists to consider why it happens and how to prevent it.

I have nothing against free trade, I am opposed to the idea that capitalism promotes a 'free' society. Although there are market Socialists, I am not one of them, because I do no think that it goes far enough to eliminate the law of Value which stands in the way of emancipation of the labourer from capital.

[ringaroundthetx]

man, 'socialist' really has a branding problem

Guess the european nations are going to simply need a new word in order to stop being conflated with North Korea, and former european nations

[tpm]

Socialism does not mean redistribution. There are currently no socialist countries in Europe, if we take the definition of socialism as social ownership and democratic control of the means of production. Some socialist policies are implemented in some sectors of the economy and society in some countries, but there is no country in Europe where this is true for large enough parts of the economy.

[ringaroundthetx]

Yeah but any politically active "socialist" in America is talking about "implementing some socialist policies in some sectors of the economy and society" just like in Western Europe

and gets run out by other Americans in all levels of society that imagine North Korea because of the word alone

branding problem. if you are talking about one thing and the other people don't understand, then the language isn't working.

[te_chris]

Only if you're American and, honestly, after the shit the American electorate just pulled by electing Trump, you're on your own sorting this shit out. Come back to the world when you've worked out how to behave and not elect dangerous morons.

[smcl]

I thought it's more of a dirty word over in the USA, and in Western + Northern Europe we're generally fine with it. The UK's head of the opposition (Jeremy Corbyn) is a self-described socialist and massively ate into the majority the Conservative party had in the last election. Germany, France and the nordic countries are pretty ok with the word and I know Portugal is the same too. These are just the ones I can speak of, the remainder I'd presume to be not too different.

It's more of an issue in former warsaw pact countries who overthrew a "socialist" government in the late 80s however. I know among my group of friends I'd get eye-rolls and chuckles if I described myself as a socialist

[Nursie]

I don't think many of the European nations woukd agree they are socialist, most see themselves trying to balance socialism and capitalism to gain the greatest benefit for all.

How successful their efforts have been is up to the individual to judge.

You are right that it's not as much of a dirty word here.