[danielharrison]

I might be able to provide some insight here. I live at one of the most crowded and user-friendly surf spots on the planet. There's constantly hundreds of people in the water fighting for waves.

The one thing I noticed mostly is how many people come here and just cannot get waves, while there's tens of kilometres of empty beach within 5 minutes drive.

They could literally go anywhere and get a few waves but they choose here and get nothing (except annoyed).

It either comes down to not knowing any better or thinking they're better than they are... often both.

My advice is to go exploring and find a less crowded spot. You may not need to go to the most popular spot to find waves.

[ljf]

The problem is - good surfers are like magnets. People see them catching a wave and assume that there is a good reason they are surfing there rather than up or down the coast. Also people get burnt by bad decisions - after a few weeks of surfing I struck out on my own to find new beaches and swiftly learnt the reasons they were empty - and wasted good days at bad beaches.

I also think the 'pecking order' is made out to be far worse than it is. As soon as most people see you in the water for at least a couple of weekends, and know you are trying, they aren't dicks - especially if you talk to them both in and out of the water and ask their advice. If you just barrel around on a board without talking or understanding the beach then there certainly will be stress as people worry they are going g to have to spend their day either looking after you, out for you or rescuing you.

[noknockers]

100%.

Depends on where you surf though. All these questions and answers are completely location dependent. If you're at a super crowded break (like where I live) it's every man for themselves. Your best friend will burn you if they see you falter for even a millisecond.

[fapjacks]

This completely. Even in traditionally hostile places, if you show up enough times and get to know the regulars, you'll be totally fine.

[dogruck]

This culture sounds like, "at first they wouldn't hire me, because I looked different. But I kept coming around, and they let me start sweeping the floor."

[fapjacks]

Yes, but it's not as bad as you're thinking. But if you think it's bad on the mainland, try it if you're white in Hawaii. White folks that say racism against whites doesn't exist never lived (or surfed) in Hawaii.

[Sir_Substance]

>if you show up enough times and get to know the regulars, you'll be totally fine.

This makes me frown slightly in vague annoyance. Why should I need the permission and tacit approval of "the regulars" to choose to start surfing? It kind of reminds me of those groups, usually of old men, that you see occasionally decide a bar is "their bar" because they've been going there a while, and try to push other patrons out though passive-aggressive behavior.

If that's really how it is, I'd be one of those wave stealers, and I wouldn't apologize for it.

[noknockers]

That's not really how it works in the surfing world. Purely from an observational standpoint it's actually quite amusing to watch the natural, land based pecking order get completely flipped on its head in the water. Young punks calling out police men, stoners and hippies telling CEOs to beat it, sponsored kids 'owning' the break etc.

There's definitely a completely separate water-based hierarchy, based 100% on how good you surf.

To answer your question:

>Why should I need the permission and tacit approval of "the regulars" to choose to start surfing?

You don't need anyones permission at all, but you have to remember surfing is not a team sport, you're competing with everyone else out there to catch a limited amount of waves in the time you have. Couple that with flat days, bad winds, bad swell direction, bad tides and limited time, it's not often you score it 'on', so everyone it's out there to get their share.

So you don't need permission, but don't expect people to be happy with you.. and if you drop in or snake someone (steal their wave) then expect to have even less friends.

[goodnews3879]

> If that's really how it is, I'd be one of those wave stealers, and I wouldn't apologize for it.

No, you would not be for very long. You would very quickly hurt yourself and others, at which point common decency might suggest you should apologize. Perhaps you are unaware that surfing right of way is first about safety?

People who respect the lineup almost always get waves, regardless of skill level. Regulars don't just get waves because they are regulars. They get waves because they understand the dynamics of that particular break.

[Sir_Substance]

>at which point common decency might suggest you should apologize. Perhaps you are unaware that surfing right of way is first about safety?

I guess that depends. If people are trivializing safety by using it as a token in a game of brinksmanship, I will not apologize. I'm happy to wait my turn, all I want is equal and fair treatment. If I find that other people are trying to place me at the bottom of a "pecking order" at a public beach, then I'm not going to play along. If you let people bully you that way once, they'll do it forever.

I'll wait until everyone else has gone at least once, I'll clearly signal that I'm going to take the wave, and then I'll take it. Try to intimidate me off by committing on the same wave to muscle me out, and you'll find me totally willing to call your bluff. We'll both go in the drink, if necessary. Try it a second time and you'll find I'm willing to do that _every_ time. At that point, the ball is in your court to drop the elitism and start sharing like an adult, or roll the dice enough times that one of us gets seriously hurt. I won't be intimidated by this cliquey highschool shit. It's a shared beach and we all pay our taxes, everyone has a right to equal use.

That having been said, this is all hypothetical, because I don't surf and hate beaches. Fucking jellyfish man.

[goodnews3879]

That's not how it works. Good surfers will just paddle around you without a care. You will just be injuring yourself and other beginners. This happens every day.

A person usually only has two options for getting waves, whether they like it or not:

[1] Show respect, humility, and make friends [2] Be the stronger/faster paddler

[fapjacks]

This is just trying to elbow your way into an established community of <skilled individuals> without proving your mettle. This is exactly the wrong way to try and earn respect. Whatever you do, don't try surfing. With that attitude, you will get into a fight in the water with people that fight in the water, and you will lose the fight. Or if you don't get into a fight in the water, they will follow you out and fight you on land. Yes, it can be childish, yes it can be stupid. Of course not always, but it does happen. But that's surfing, and that's just the way it goes.