[CaptainZapp]

OK, fine.

Then how, as an American, do you justify Ag_gag laws?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ag-gag

It seems to me that free speech values in the US are not quite as absolute as you make them out to be. Especially when the interest of powerful people or big corporations come to play.

[toomuchtodo]

> Then how, as an American, do you justify Ag_gag laws?

I don't, and they have been repeatedly struck down by our courts. Checks and balances between overzealous legislators and our judicial branch.

[GauntletWizard]

Ag-gag laws are abhorrent. Most Americans agree. They're a relatively recent problem (Most have been passed or on the ballot since 2012, so last five years) caused by corrupt politicians that Americans are working to solve.

Pointing at them is classic whataboutism. We have problems in the US. We mostly confront them headon rather than pretending they don't exist. Suppression of speech is pretending they don't exist.

Another example: Americans are constantly blasted by Europeans for racism. Racism is a very real problem in America - That's why groups like Black Lives Matter exist. We deal with these problems with speech, like the aforementioned group. As such, some fairly basic indicators, like the public opinion on miscegenation have been trending in a good direction - Less than 20% of America disapproves of it[1]. The data is not quite quantified in the same way, but there's an argument that in Germany, that number is more than 40%[2]. Across the EU, 35% of people would be upset if their child were dating a black person. The numbers are not directly comparable - The US numbers are about interracial marriage as a whole, not personalizing it about "your child", and I've seen firsthand that there's a difference. But those aren't numbers that swing that far. It might be equally bad, it might be a little worse in the US. It's not the sea change that it's so often presented as - Racism is a global problem, not a US one.

[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interracial_marriage_in_the_Un... [2]http://www.equineteurope.org/IMG/pdf/ebs_437_en.pdf

[CaptainZapp]

Thanks for your thoughtful reply. Just one comment:

I don't think that my comment was whataboutism. Not when I reply to the following quote:

"As an American, I look down on the limits of speech in Europe with disdain"

Which implicitly puts an absolute to free speech in America. Which it's most definitely not.

[GauntletWizard]

My point was- The grandparent probably looks down on Ag-gag laws with disdain, too. Most Americans do.

[walterstucco]

cops in EU are not targeting black people, that's why we don't need groups like "black lives matter".

I come from Italy, parents in Italy are upset even if you ask them what they think about their children marrying someone from the village 2 Kms away from theirs

But then they won't shoot anybody who does it

It's not really racism.

it's old people being old