[silly_giraffe]

Except for us crazy individuals that need the computer on for uninterrupted data processing. I have Windows only software that can take two weeks to complete a dataset. There is no intermediate data backup, so if the job is killed, I have to start over. My only reliable option has been to keep it off the network.

[criddell]

This is a prime use case for a workstation and it's hard for me to believe that Microsoft didn't expose better control over updates.

More than a few times, I've come to work, wiggled my mouse and been greeted with a blank desktop. It's soooo frustrating that I need to spend the first 15 minutes of my day launching applications, loading projects, digging up notes, etc... when it was all arranged perfectly just a few hours ago. Windows can figure out my likely work hours. How hard would it be for them to pop up a reminder that the machine will be rebooted overnight and give me some options?

On top of that, after the reboot, Microsoft reinstalls all the bloat that I removed -- money, bing, xbox, groove, contacts, email, weather, maps, news, and others. All of them have bugs, all consumer resources, and all probably make my machine less secure.

[ashark]

Those exact issues finally got me to drop Win10 to run Linux on the desktop for the first time in most of a decade, and to not have Windows running on any of my machines for the first time since... god, 1992 or 1993? Something like that. Even the Win8 crapfest didn't make me abandon Windows. 10's bad.

And that's just my personal entertainment PC. I don't know how people who have to actually do work in that environment don't throw their machine off a balcony, or quit and go somewhere that lets them use a different OS. It's infuriating. I'd go nuts dealing with trying to be productive in Win10 5 days a week.

[b3lvedere]

Oh yeah. On top of the fresh bloat it also reset lots of registry entries and other hidden features. Not a fan of that.

[criddell]

Very true. When I see things like the contacts app reappear, I know it's time to go through the privacy settings because Microsoft invariably resets many of them.

[b3lvedere]

It's absolutely not the best tool in the world, but this one helps me a lot: https://www.winprivacy.de/english-home/

[jshelly]

You have summarized the exact reason(s) why I will not use Windows for the foreseeable future even though I do like Windows 10

[basch]

its in group policy to not initiate a reboot if a user is logged in.

my guess is microsoft doesnt care about people who dont read the documentation.

[criddell]

AFAIK, the machine reboots no matter what if the update has a deadline that's reached.

I get what you are saying though.

[basch]

not true, must be talking about different policies.

>Always automatically restart at the scheduled times = disabled

>No auto-restart with logged on users for scheduled automatic updates installations = enabled

>Delay Restart for scheduled installations = enabled

>Reschedule Automatic Updates scheduled installations = disabled

never had a reboot since.

[tgtweak]

I have deactivated the auto update restart logic by gpo policy (locally) and just hit escape on the update summary when it's done downloading.

Now they just blue screen it every month and it does the update when you're forced to restart it.

Really pathetic considering I had windows 8.1 pro on it before with 3+ months uptime and no need to restart beyond 3rd party software requiring it or drivers/hardware.

[detaro]

They bluescreen it? Or maybe the drivers are different (or your hardware is broken)? I see no regular bluescreens on Windows 10 devices.

[tgtweak]

On both my windows 10 systems (one is a Dell T7910 which is fully supported, the other a vaio ultrabook) they exhibit this behavior so I find it difficult to correlate that to hardware or drivers.

[rbanffy]

> I have Windows only software that can take two weeks to complete a dataset

What kind of sadistic monster wrote this?

[tgtweak]

Bet you $5 it's an R script.

[angry_napkin]

Where advice would you offer to someone with long-running R-Scripts? Spark?

[tgtweak]

Spark and EMR spot instances for sure.

[na85]

R isn't Windows-only.

[tgtweak]

Some modules are windows only, I've seen many R pipelines that can only run on windows. Azure has capitalized on this.

[tokenizerrr]

You're not a regular end user. The Microsoft way is for you to get the more expensive license so you can use group policies to adjust this behavior.

[FussyZeus]

...which is kind of why people are upset. Things that were possible, i.e. total control over when PC's install updates and how they do them, are now not unless you pony up for a more expensive license. We're not talking Bitlocker or anything here, we're talking control over the system.

I agree it's not a typical use case, but it was an understood use case for a very long time. My only real beef with Windows 10 is the overly aggressive update system.

[tokenizerrr]

I understand and agree that it's bullshit. But for normal end users it works fine.

And part of me does think that I prefer the majority of the clueless end users to be forced to update. Having to support outdated operating systems and browsers is pretty horrible. And making it harder for botnets to spread is also a pretty good thing.

But yes, there should just be a simple setting. Sadly there isn't so we're left to resorting to shitty workarounds.

[FussyZeus]

> And part of me does think that I prefer the majority of the clueless end users to be forced to update. Having to support outdated operating systems and browsers is pretty horrible. And making it harder for botnets to spread is also a pretty good thing.

So make it updatable without a system reboot? Why does Windows need to reboot for standard security updates? Hell, most times when Windows says I need to reboot, simply restarting the service(s) that have been updated accomplishes the same thing.

It's not like Microsoft doesn't have control over the entire codebase. Unix applies security patches all the time without restarting, and has for a decade. Why can't MS make this work? TBH, to me it feels like good old laziness. A system reboot has been the go-to to address Windows' lack of stability and quality since freaking 3.1. Reboot reboot reboot, that's all MS ever has for a solution.

[InitialLastName]

> So make it updatable without a system reboot?

Even better, solve the problem Apple solved 5 years ago and make reboots seamlessly return to the pre-reboot state (or at least try).

[FussyZeus]

I've been impressed with that actually, works very well.

[HelloNurse]

But realistically the clueless "normal" end users who should update automatically don't know about group policies and aren't going to use them, not even by mistake.

[tokenizerrr]

You'd be surprised. A user who is annoyed at their computer shutting off while they're gaming because they kept it on for a few days will Google. Find some instructions and blindly follows them. Then they forget about that because they went back to their game. Fast forward a few months and their computer is part of a botnet and we're all worse off.

[FussyZeus]

^ Exactly. If you don't make it user friendly, especially Windows users will track down a user-unfriendly way to do whatever they feel they need to do. Now you've got end users playing in your registry and group policy, to accomplish a thing that should've been doable with a dropdown select.

[ocdtrekkie]

I used to regularly see advice shared around that if you got an SSL warning in Chrome when trying to visit Facebook, to just type "DANGER" in the keyboard, and everything would work again. I believe Google changed the workaround after a while because it was never intended to be used as a way for people to dismiss critical warnings without any real understanding of the risks.

[csjr]

I believe they changed the keyword to "badidea".

[b3lvedere]

How about a server version of Windows?

[e40]

That would work, but it's a complete joke that he'd need to go that route to get a 2 week job to finish.

[mattnewton]

Does this happen if you buy windows machines on something like azure? Granted, I'd start looking into *nix alternatives to that software after the first reboot.. but I understand I live in a different world than a lot of buisiness which are all windows all the time.