[enra]

I agree that we need to build in the city as well, but many major cities have good transportation inside and outside of the city too.

Currently it's almost an hour to get to downtown from Ocean Beach to Financial district with a bus, and its only 7 miles away. That is 7mph, almost a walking speed.

For example, back in Helsinki (where I'm from) you could easily get to the downtown anywhere in the 12mile radius in 10-20mins with a bus, light rail or train. I know the numbers are similar in many European cities.

Generally in Europe public transport is usually the easier and faster option than driving or at least the same time. If driving in a city is multitudes faster then you're not doing to public or other transportation systems very well.

[durgiston]

You walk really fast! But seriously, revitalizing existing public transit and making it function properly should be a priority. No disagreements there. But we don't need to build new trains and bus lines that go further out.

[closeparen]

Urbanists will continue to think we don't need more sprawl, and NIMBYs will continue to think we don't need more density, and nothing will change.

The only politically realistic way we're going to get large-scale high-density environments is through greenfield projects. Having a long but tolerable public transit journey between your greenfield high-density development and the existing job centers is one of very few plausible paths to getting there.