[cmrdporcupine]

I bet on plugin hybrids, specifically ones with large batteries. This seems to be an unpopular opinion, but I think the Voltec drivetrain shows what's possible here. Pure EV purists dislike PHEVs because they have the complexity of an ICE car + an EV car, but I think there's some serious advantages. Like you say, Atkinson cycle for electricity generation for when the battery drains beyond smaller commute ranges. Something like this new Mazda engine in that context would make quite a bit of sense for overall fuel efficiency.

[mywittyname]

> because they have the complexity of an ICE car + an EV car,

The irony being that most don't. For example, hybrid synergy drive is basically an alternate transmission design that replaces the complex clutch packs used to control Ravigneaux planetary gears with electric motors. The result is a more simple overall design.

Other systems are literally just beefed up starters.

[cmrdporcupine]

I agree. The Volt to me is a beautiful piece of engineering, and the ICE system is actually simpler than a regular ICE car _because_ of the presence of the EV side of the car, which compliments it.

I think it's more of a political thing -- if you've made the argument that "ICE = pollution = bad" then it's hard to turn around and say "but a little bit of ICE to extend range is good."

The battery + electric motor adds so much good -- regenerative braking, electric torque, good city driving experience, it really feels like every car that is now an ICE should be a hybrid, even if just a "soft" hybrid with no plug, like a Prius.

[kbenson]

> Pure EV purists dislike PHEVs because they have the complexity of an ICE car + an EV car, but I think there's some serious advantages.

I would imagine most the complaints are for when the ICE actually powers a drivetrain. If it's essentially a generator to keep the batteries from depleting too far, that's not much extra complexity it all. Have a problem with the generator? Just swap it out with a new or rebuilt one from some vendor (if designed well such that you can do so). I'm seeing that a Tesla uses about 300 Watts a mile @ 55 Mph.[1] Honda seems to have generators much more than capable of supplying that need for under $1000.[2] I'm not familiar enough with electric systems to know how accurate that assessment is (whether the voltage requirements complicate it, for example), but that seems promising. Then again, I imagine if it was really that easy, Tesla would have put a generator charge hookup and exhaust ventilation capabilities in the trunk already.

Edit: Hmm, I'm definitely missing something, since the $1000 generator says it can go 8.1 hours on a gallon of gas, and it doesn't seem likely for that to translate into powering a Tesla for 8 hours of travel.

1: https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/average-wattage-for-...

2: https://powerequipment.honda.com/generators/selecting-a-gene...

[fnj]

> a Tesla uses about 300 Watts a mile @ 55 Mph

This is nonsense. The dimensions are wrong. Watts are instantaneous power. To be meaningful, you would have to give either kWh/h or kWh per mile or km.

Besides that 300 W is only 0.4 hp. Sorry, but that is just not credible.

[madengr]

Just for reference, I average about 4.5 mile/kWh in my Leaf.

[aunty_helen]

Not to dispute your claim that it's low, but the physics checks out. The cited link saves me explaining it: >Reports are 300 W/mile at 55 mph. If you do the product of these two numbers (300 * 55) all units but W will cancell eachother out so the answer is 16500 W = 16.5kW

The time component being on the mph allows the conversion.

[sokoloff]

No. 300 Watts / mile * 55 mile / hour leaves you with 16500 Watts / hour, which is a non-sensical unit.

On the other hand, using the correct units (300Wh/mile):

300 Watt * hour / mile * 55 mile / hour = 16500 Watts [a sensible unit] (or about 22 horsepower which is reasonable for a steady 55mph cruise).

Do that for an hour, and you get 16.5kWh of energy consumption and cover 55 miles, for an energy efficiency of 3.33 miles/kWh, which is in the ballpark (albeit low) for what my LEAF delivers (averaging a bit over 4 miles/kWh at average speeds somewhat lower than 55 mph)

[averagewall]

That's not obvious. Why @ means *? And what does W/mile mean?

[timerol]

The units in the linked thread are slightly wrong, which was corrected later in the thread. 300 Wh/mi * 55 mph = 16.5 kW.

The most powerful generator I see on Honda's site is 10 kW for $5400.

[chipsa]

Yeah. I expect the unit being used is 300 Watt-hours. IOW: (300 Wh/mi 55mi/h) =16500 W, or 16.5 kW. Which actually sounds about reasonable, being 22 horsepower.