[johnrichardson]

Jordan Peterson has a great take on the attitude this author (and many others like her) have about America, and the West in general: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cf2nqmQIfxc&t=1s

The modern Left is dripping with hatred for the West - quite ironic given that we live in one the most free, prosperous societies ever created in human history. They are driven almost entirely by resentment, and lack even a shred of gratitude for the vast wealth, comfort and freedom they've been born into.

[RobertoG]

"The modern Left is dripping with hatred for the West"

Do you mean that "the modern left", that homogeneous and well defined group, discourse is full of unjustified generalizations, where generic labels are apply without qualification?

Yes, quite ironic certainly.

[graphitezepp]

Shout outs to out-group homogeneity bias.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Out-group_homogeneity

[beaconstudios]

one can point out trends in political groups without implying that they're a hoard of drones.

[ivanbakel]

But nothing was being pointed out, neither was the implication of drone-ness taken away.

GP's point was just that a sweeping generalisation of "the modern Left" is a meaningless statement, because it doesn't address a well-defined group, and the Left generally is not similar enough among itself for those broad claims to be true. Representing an entire swathe of the political spectrum as one homogeneous group is completely dishonest and unrealistic. It's definitely not "pointing out a trend".

[beaconstudios]

it addresses a familiar group to those with a similar perspective/experience to the GP. I immediately thought of the progressive movement and especially the media outlets associated with it. I'm not even particularly conservative but I've definitely noticed the trend of anti-Western attitudes in outlets like the Guardian, Buzzfeed, Gawker (RIP) and so on, as well as an associated culture on sites like reddit.

[RobertoG]

Sure you can.

But if your group is so wide that people so different as H.Clinton and Chomsky could be inside it, and you talk about their motivations instead of a specific idea, I think you deserve some criticism.

[beaconstudios]

that's like suggesting that saying modern conservatives have a hard-on for forgiving/accepting aggressive foreign policy is unfair. Political wings definitely have trends.

[RobertoG]

I think you are being a little unfair here.

I think it is more like saying:

"The modern Right is dripping with hatred for the Government - quite ironic given that we live in one the most free, prosperous societies ever created in human history. They are driven almost entirely by resentment, and lack even a shred of gratitude for the vast wealth, comfort and freedom they've been born into."

You could ask me, and rightly so, who is this "modern right" and if I'm being fair when addressing their motivations.

You could ask me, also rightly, how the debate advance in a positive way with this kind of all covering statements.

[beaconstudios]

but hatred for the government isn't an archetypal right-wing sentiment. Perhaps a libertarian one, to which I would agree (or maybe not hatred, more distrust). Is your main point that the GP said "modern left" where they should have said "progressive" or "far-left"?

[boyce]

Without wanting to particularly single you out, it does worry me that people anywhere on the political spectrum so massively misunderstand other positions, whether through wilful ignorance or otherwise.

[RobertoG]

What is the misunderstanding in the GP comment? and what are the criticized positions?

Because, to me, it looks only like an ad hominem attack towards an ill-defined group.

[boyce]

It's just this habit I have where if I'm interested in challenging someone's ideas or preconceptions, I do it in a gentle way and from a place of curiosity and understanding rather than reinforce their misconceptions by being condescending and unpleasant.

[ivanbakel]

>and lack even a shred of gratitude for the vast wealth, comfort and freedom they've been born into.

Because they consider it immorally gotten? Why do you assume that people with completely different value judgements to you ought to think as you do about history and society?

[vcjohnson]

Could you expound a bit on what you mean by immorally gotten?

[ivanbakel]

Well, any number of historical reasons: slavery; violence against indigenous people; colonial sources, such as exporting of natural resources; the actions of a state, which might not be recognised as an authority; or simply inherited property from a time of aristocracy.

Equally, people might reject systems of ownership out of hand, and consider the gulf of wealth causes by those systems to be the product of immoral behaviour.

[vcjohnson]

Ah I see what you mean. I suppose I do identify with both the arguments then. Grateful to be born into a society that is as prosperous and free as the one I live and also cognizant that it was at least partially obtained using ventures that were, by today's standards, morally reprehensible.

Kind of a double edged sword though. Any society that currently allows the gratitude probably has a fairly checked past, even those outside the U.S. Not sure where one line begins and another ends.

[jessaustin]

We destroy other nations for no defensible reason. We are what our "founding fathers" warned against.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HeelRealization

[DarkKomunalec]

> lack a shred of gratitude for the vast wealth, comfort and freedom they've been born into.

That's 'privilege', and is something to feel guilty about. It's not something to be grateful to your ancestors for providing, but something you get unfairly by 'accident of birth'. Only when it comes to guilt is your connection to your ancestors and ethnicity more than an accident.

Edit: I did not think a 'sarcasm' tag necessary.

[Nursie]

>> That's 'privilege', and is something to feel guilty about. It's not something to be grateful to your ancestors for providing, but something you get unfairly by 'accident of birth'. Only when it comes to guilt is your connection to your ancestors and ethnicity more than an accident.

Oh wow.

I mean, I know that compared to many others (the vast majority) in the world I am exceedingly privileged. And seeking to help others overcome the barriers they face (that you do not) is a good thing. Even understanding that these barriers are there is something a lot of folks don't really get.

But I'm sure as hell not going to feel guilt over being brought up with a good education, enough money in the house and being born with light, pinkish skin.

[Nursie]

>> Edit: I did not think a 'sarcasm' tag necessary.

Poe's Law strikes again :)

[johnrichardson]

Yet another example of what I was referring to.

I happen to be quite grateful for the sacrifices my ancestors (and the human race more broadly) made in building civilization, so that I don't have to live in a Hobbesian world where death by age 30 is the norm.

[icebraining]

Yet another example of what I was referring to.

Pretty sure DarkKomunalec is being sarcastic, but good job reinforcing your biases.

https://hn.algolia.com/?query=white%20by:DarkKomunalec&sort=...