[bobbin]

> Yes, because nature doesn't use pain to teach us ever. That's why I can leave my hand on a hot stove until it turns black.

I don't to see how is this an argument. I'm not objecting the notion that people can learn to avoid what causes pain.

How is it that what you wrote makes sense and supports your case? (that controlling children through pain is good parenting).

> There is a difference between corporal punishment/discipline and abuse.

You are right. Abuse is just abuse, and corporal punishment is abuse with the propose of shaping someone's behaviour. There is a difference.

I would agree that someone who does "corporal punishment" can have good intentions.

[steverb]

All discipline is painful. Whether it's physical pain or emotional pain. I believe, based on purely anecdotal evidence, that physical pain is less harmful to a child's emotional well being.

Corporal punishment, if administered properly, is over in an instant, and once the child has been made to understand that what they did is not acceptable (and optionally why, depending on the child's age) then reconciliation between the child and the parent can take place.

Also, keep in mind that different types of discipline are appropriate for different children. I don't think it makes sense to spank a two year old, because they probably wouldn't remember why they were being spanked, but a light slap on the hand when they go to grab that priceless vase is pretty effective. I also don't spank my teen-aged son, but he has had to do his fair share of push-ups while listening to me explain to him the error of his ways.

Now, you may be one of those parents who don't discipline your child at all. More power to you, but bear in mind that if you do not discipline your child and teach them proper from improper behavior, then society WILL do it for you. And the methods society uses are probably going to be much more painful.

[bobbin]

> I also don't spank my teen-aged son, but he has had to do his fair share of push-ups while listening to me explain to him the error of his ways.

He doesn't have to. It's not an requirement of life that he does. He's just submissive towards you.

I don't see why should it be a requirement. If he does, then why are they still a requirement? If he doesn't, why is it a good thing for him to comply? Why is he afraid? why is he submissive?

I understand you are not going to accept reality here. I know you have rationalizations to justify causing fear and pain in your "parenting". I understand it seem reasonable to you and that's not going to change. I quit.