[ue_]

As an anecdote related to this, there is a law that came into force in the UK in 2009 which made illegal drawings showing fictional characters who appear to be under 18 engaging in sex, or in the presence of sex. A similar law came into force in the United States (the PROTECT act), and it was stricken down by SCOTUS because a clause making illegal drawn pornography turns out (unsurprisingly) to violate the constitutional to free speech. Currently there are about 20 prosecutions per annum (and it is rising) under this law in the UK. I don't think this truly hideous law will be stricken down by a court (even the ECHR, which is May's sworn enemy) nor will it be repealed by parliament, because nobody cares about disgusting speech.

[paganel]

> As an anecdote related to this, there is a law that came into force in the UK in 2009 which made illegal drawings showing fictional characters who appear to be under 18 engaging in sex

So you're saying that watching most hentai is borderline illegal in the UK? That's crazy.

[ue_]

I wouldn't say most, but a good proportion is, even possession of it. The catch is that the character has to give the "predominant impression" of being a child, so they can have non-child like features (such as slightly larger breasts, antennae (as was mentioned during the debate) etc.) and still be counted under the law. And you think you can encrypt to get away from it? No chance! If you refuse to hand over your keys to an encrypted volume you can face a maximum of 4 years in prison.

[DanBC]

> If you refuse to hand over your keys to an encrypted volume you can face a maximum of 4 years in prison.

The requirements for getting you to hand over your keys are a bit stricter than "they ask for them". The long and complex law is here: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2000/23/contents

The RIPA sentences for failure to handover passwords is either 2 years or 5 years. It's 5 years for child indecency cases, but the relevant laws are listed in subsection 7, and it doesn't include The Coroners and Justice Act of April 2009. (And that only applied to England, Wales, and NI. It doesn't apply to Scotland.)

It's not clear that most hentai is made illegal by the C&JA2009. See below.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2000/23/part/III

  (7)Those provisions are—
  (a)section 1 of the Protection of Children Act 1978 (showing or taking etc an indecent photograph of a child: England and Wales);
  (b)Article 3 of the Protection of Children (Northern Ireland) Order 1978 (S.I. 1978/1047 (N.I. 17)) (corresponding offence for Northern Ireland);
  (c)section 52 or 52A of the Civic Government (Scotland) Act 1982 (showing or taking etc or possessing an indecent photograph of a child: Scotland);
  (d)section 160 of the Criminal Justice Act 1988 (possessing an indecent photograph of a child: England and Wales);
  (e)Article 15 of the Criminal Justice (Evidence, Etc.) (Northern Ireland) Order 1988 (S.I. 1988/1847 (N.I. 17)) (corresponding offence for Northern Ireland).]

I don't think RIPA mentions the Coroners and Justice Act, so I don't think they can force you to reveal passwords for those images. But maybe I'm missing some changes?

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2009/25/part/2/chapter/2

   (2)A prohibited image is an image which—
     (a)is pornographic,
     (b)falls within subsection (6), and
     (c)is grossly offensive, disgusting or otherwise of an obscene character.

I'd suggest it could be argued lots of hentai fails (c).

   (5)“Child”, subject to subsection (6), means a person under the age of 18.
   (6)Where an image shows a person the image is to be treated as an image of a child if—
     (a)the impression conveyed by the image is that the person shown is a child, or
     (b)the predominant impression conveyed is that the person shown is a child despite the fact that some of the physical characteristics shown are not those of a child.

[ue_]

Thank you for your clarification as to the law on key disclosure. I was sloppy when I said "UK" and I did not exclude Scotland. NI also has a separate law of their own for this, too.

> I'd suggest it could be argued lots of hentai fails (c).

I'm not so sure. Perhaps images that don't display any act of sex taking place, and just nudity or even swimsuit (e.g ecchi) would qualify, but most hentai does display acts of sex taking place. Either way, might the subject, being a "child" hold sway on whether it is considered "disgusting" or not? I'd think it would.

>the predominant impression conveyed is that the person shown is a child despite the fact that some of the physical characteristics shown are not those of a child.

Yes, this is the part that I was talking about when I talked about breast size and antennae.

Either way I am wholly opposed to such a law, and I think the arguments used to support it are weak.

[Freak_NL]

People may care about (what others may consider) disgusting speech, or they may find it disgusting themselves but they care because of the principle of free speech, but the problem lies in coming out and saying so. Defending drawn porn of minors is harmful to your career at best — for some it can mean the end of relationships, getting ostracised by friends and family, and being persecuted, slandered, and stalked online by people who feel very strongly about such topics.

Even for the most battle-hardened politician near the end of their career, this issue is a minefield.

[ue_]

I was about to mention this, but I thought it seemed too obvious. Nobody wants to come out and say that they are in favour of such material, especially to decriminalise it, except maybe a fringe party such as the Pirate Party. I have heard it may be similar to the law in Japan mandating that genitals be censored - no politician, Japanese or otherwise, wants to be "the one" to stand up and argue against it, I think anyway.

So perhaps "people don't care" isn't sufficient and a mistake on my part, though I have spoken to people who say that they are "not concerned" about the topic, despite being rather liberal in terms of freedom of expression otherwise.