[freetime2]

I think this article is less about the benefits of laundromats vs. in-unit washing machines (most people would choose the latter), and more about the struggles of people who are unable to afford apartments with in-unit hookups and who now have to walk an extra couple of blocks to do their laundry.

[int_19h]

It's really weird, because this is literally lower quality of life than USSR circa late 70s. Sure, we had really crappy and tiny in-unit washing machines (http://pics.rbc.ru/img/cnews/2007/09/04/41a.jpg) - but most people did have one. We didn't have anything like a laundromat.

[woobar]

> We didn't have anything like a laundromat.

They were called 'prachechnaya'.

And the situation in the USSR wasn't that rosy. Only 70% of the population owned these tiny machines.

[int_19h]

They may have existed somewhere, but I'm not aware of any in my home town.

As with many things in the USSR, it may well have been regional and time-dependent. My memories are from mid-80s, although I know that my family had one before then. I didn't know anyone whose family didn't have one, and we weren't a nomenklatura family or anything like that - just a regular Soviet family with boring everyday jobs (teachers and engineers) - and neither were our neighbors and acquaintances.

[gpvos]

This may explain why Poland doesn't seem to understand the concept of a laundromat. As a tourist, this can be quite annoying. (Hotel laundry service is usually per-piece and thus way too expensive.)

[jessaustin]

When I've lived in hotels longer than a week at a time, I've sent just collared shirts and slacks to the laundry. Everything else can be satisfactorily washed in the bathtub. One place I stayed in Tokyo had this really long shoehorn in every room, which was ideal for stirring the tub.

[striking]

Yeah, plenty of people in Poland would just wash their clothes either by hand or with a really cheap washer. And dryers were rare and land was plentiful, you'd just air dry.

Not that people don't own them now, but what they own now is a straight-up upgrade from what they had before.

At this point I'm sure there will soon be a market for laundromats in Poland, at least in the more urban areas. But it'd be a hard sell for the vast majority of Polish folks.

[tener]

Interesting. For a generally rich country the economics seems odd. In contrast, my grandmother was definitely not a wealthy person and she could still put aside the money for the washing machine in the height of the communism. There were no laundromats anywhere.

I do wonder where are the differences coming from.

[gpvos]

I guess government is sometimes better able to provide basic services (a place to connect your washing machine) than private landlords. A failure of the market.

[woobar]

These 'machines' were not connected to anything. On your laundry day (yeah, you will spend a whole day doing laundry, and not just loading and unloading a machine), you will pull it in your bathroom. Then connect one hose to the faucet, run another into the bathtub. They were absolute crap. Laundromat is a big step up compared to that.

In fact, building the network of government owned laundromats would be better fit for centrally planned economy of the USSR. My guess the only reason it never happened is the inability to build a reliable heavy duty automatic washing machine.

[tener]

There are things that benefit from the economy of scale (e.g. factories) and then there are those that don't. Laundry is clearly in the second league: all the machines are independent of each other so the whole thing can (and usually is, nowadays) split apart (everyone has a washing machine at their place).

[tener]

This statement is, again, surprising to me: to connect a washing machine all you really need is water, sink and electricity. I can't imagine a kitchen without these things and indeed, a washing machine was often put in kitchens. The other popular choice was bathroom (my grandmother didn't have one, so they have to use kitchen).

I get it that additional, large appliance may be somewhat unwieldy, but I don't think more than having to haul your clothes to get them washed.

[CalRobert]

Laundromats are expensive, though. I used one for a while and spent nearly ten bucksa week, even though I brought clothes home to air dry. After buying a used haier hlp21n it paid for itself inabout 3 months.

[martinald]

I find it really odd the US doesn't have washing machines in apartments.

Even the tiniest studio apartment in the UK would come with one. You very rarely see laundromats in the UK (usually in areas with a very high concentration of students, as halls of residence provision can be poor for them).

Why don't they have them in the US? You have water and electricity, so I can't understand why this is a big deal.

[Sleeep]

Plenty of apartments in the US have washing machines, I've lived in several apartments and all had a washing machine[1].

As for the reason why many don't - historical (they weren't designed when household washing machines didn't exist and were never retrofitted), and slumlords not wanting to manage another appliance.

Add to that nowadays Americans don't do much air drying of their clothes so a washer without a dryer is much less appealing. As long as you had physical space adding a washer to an apartment that wasn't designed for one is cheap. Adding a dryer is very costly - dedicated plug or gas line plus ventilation to the outside. So if it's not economically worth the dryer upgrade than most landlords just won't bother with a washer upgrade either.

If your landlord doesn't provide a washer and your apartment doesn't have washer hookups you could always get a portable washing machine (or jury rig a regular washer to be 'portable') for any apartment as long as you had somewhere to store it. I've even hear of someone splitting the water line under the sink to install a washer in a rental.

Same thing with dishwashers, some apartments have them, some don't.

[1]One apartment I lived in though had all the washing machines and dryers in the shared basement and they were coin operated and we weren't supposed to use them after 9.

[freetime2]

I would also add rent control laws as a possible reason for not renovating more apartments with washing machines. Many of the older buildings in San Francisco have tenants who have been living there for decades and pay rents that are well below market rates. Landlords have little incentive to make improvements since they can't easily raise rents. And tenants have little incentive to shop for a nicer apartment if it means losing their below-market rates.

When the tenant does finally move out, it's not uncommon for the landlord to renovate, add modern amenities, and raise prices significantly. Hence in-unit washing machines are on the rise and laundromats are on the decline. But it takes a long time for the process to play out.

[arethuza]

"Adding a dryer is very costly"

Condenser dryers are pretty easy to install - all you need is an electrical outlet.

[EADGBE]

Very cool that these exists. I had no idea. But I'm just your typical stupid American.

However, it looks like they're about 3x the cost of a vented dryer.

And smaller capacity than vented ones.

> Ventless dryers also take longer to get your clothes dry. A vented dryer might finish a Normal load in about 45-50 minutes, but a condenser or heat pump dryer could run for an hour and a half. Want to dry a bulky blanket or comforter? You could be waiting more than three hours.

http://laundry.reviewed.com/features/everything-you-need-to-...

[arethuza]

I've never waited 3 hours for our dryer to dry anything - in fact even a heavy blanket doesn't take more than an hour.

[EADGBE]

Do you live in a humid climate? I wonder if that impedes on the dry time at all (having to dry out the air before drying out the clothes drying in the air).

[Sleeep]

I should have specified "traditional dryer." New tech is pretty interesting, I didn't know they existed, but then again I don't pay much attention to dryers other than my own and my own needs ventilation to the outside and a special plug. Price would certainly be an issue in a lower cost rental unit.

Also RE: "much less appealing," should have specified "much less appealing to a prospective tenant than a washer/dryer combo thus wouldn't command higher rent thus isn't worth a landlord's time and money even if space is available right next to the sink for a cheap install." Line drying is much more common in other parts of the world.

[brooklyn_ashey]

It comes down to: in NYC the landlords don't have to provide services in order to demand really high rents. They do the absolute least amount they can for the tenant while still being able to collect huge rents. We have a housing crisis which makes it a greedy landlord's market. Also, unless the unit is listed in the lease as a service, the LL is required to provide, the LL has no obligation to fix even the machines in a building's laundry room. So, they let them break and don't fix them because there is nothing a renter can do about it except break their lease. The rental market is so bad in NYC, that landlords will often not provide services that are required by law (heat, hot water) just to see if they can get away with it. They often do, as NYC tenants, especially new city residents, have no idea what their legal rights are.

[martinald]

The housing crisis in London is far worse. Salaries are (vastly, in many cases) lower and rents (pre brexit GBP/USD crash, at least) are very similar in nominal terms. You do have washers in nearly every flat, though.

[brooklyn_ashey]

That is terrible. I can't really imagine it being worse than here. Landlords are asking tenants to front 3-6 months in "security deposit" now, and tenants have to go to court to get it back when they leave. I'm so sorry it is worse in London. Well, at least you guys have clean clothes and free healthcare! I do think about moving to London after watching a whole season of Endeavour or Sherlock. That wallpaper in Sherlock is the bomb.

[csydas]

Many of the apartments aren't designed well for such a set up, or have other strict noise rules, concerns over water problems and maintenance costs, or just simply the landlord doesn't like the idea of the units having the machines as even with more modern washers with good locks/seals, people still manage to misuse them and cause water damage. Or they just don't want to manage the maintenance for such units.

It's also possible that there's an expectation that you always have a washer/dryer combo, whereas having just the washing unit isn't uncommon from what I've seen in the EU/other parts of the world and then just having an air drying rack for drying. I was a little surprised when I first moved abroad at not having a dryer (and annoyed admittedly), but I got used to it pretty easily and just adjusted my laundry schedule. Likewise, the size may be a difference in expectation, as many people expect full sized units installed, not compact units.

[martinald]

I've lived in 17th Century buildings in the UK that have all for washing machines - I doubt the apartments there had washing machines in mind when they were built :)

[Declanomous]

You guys also put your washing machine in the kitchen. In the US the washing machine goes in a different room, which means you have to run a lot more plumbing. Combination machines are also extremely rare, and people don't really air dry clothes much, so you need space for both a washer and dryer.

Plus a unit with an in-unit washer and dryer generally costs more than a similarly sized unit, and part of that space is taken up by a washer/dryer.

[philh]

The London bedsit I lived in a few years ago didn't have one, I had to use the nearby laundromat.

(Aside: as it turns out, I didn't know how washing machines worked, and I spent like a year washing my clothes without soap before the attendant told me. I now know that a "pre-wash" is... exactly what it sounds like, and it's not compatible with putting detergent tablets directly in the drum.)

[EADGBE]

More insurance claims for water damage? When the washer/dryer set is owned by the renter than the renter's insurance will cover damages, vs the property owner.

Also, a lot of landlords will rent out washer/dryer sets to tenants for another monthly fee if they don't have their own to hook up.

[greggman]

Unless it's gone up, the cost of fluff and fold service in the mission is cheap enough that it's not much more than doing it yourself. Especially when many laundromats where is > $2 for a wash load and similar for a dry load. If you have to separate your loads it can easily be $12 to do your laundry yourself. You can probably get it done for $15 and have several hours of your life to do something else.