[ZenoArrow]

> "Left with total freedom and no guidance, they would destroy themselves"

The state should provide a certain base level safety net, especially so those who realised they messed up have a way to turn things around, but society should allow people to learn from their mistakes. It's important to give people that freedom to grow, even if it takes some self-destructive behaviour before someone wants to turn their life around. Actions that affect multiple people should be handled differently, but if all I'm doing is making myself unhealthy then perhaps I just have different priorities. In short, freedom should include the freedom to mess up.

[Banthum]

Even if all you're doing is making yourself unhealthy, you're still harming others by destroying your own ability to contribute what you should be contributing.

Simple non-aggression isn't good enough. We all depend on others contributing to society. The standard cannot be that you simply must not actively cause harm. The standard must be that we each contribute positively.

None of us ever reached adulthood except by the contributions of others - parents, social services, earlier taxpayers, soldiers, etc. You owe those contributions back to the next generation, and to the people who share society with you.

If you're strung out or dead from foolish drug use, you cannot contribute. You cannot pay that back, and you are a wrongdoer for taking without reciprocating.

Any other attitude will create a non-viable society over the long term, and spread great suffering.

[ZenoArrow]

You can't force people to be happy, productive members of society. Imposing that on someone leads to bitterness and resentment. Furthermore, it's boring. If we all define ourselves as being productive workers, can't you see something more important would be lost?

[Banthum]

You can't force people to be happy, but you can strongly encourage them to contribute to the welfare of others, thus sustaining the conditions that give everyone a chance at happiness.

[arcticbull]

Without the freedom to try (the same thing as the freedom to fail) society may never move to a better balance point. We can't know what we don't know until we try. Catch people when they fall but certainly don't try and stop them from making an attempt in the first place.