[xj9]

sure, but what is actually wrong with drug use? moral outrage? the sign of a decaying society? untold secondary consequences?

the problem is, people use drugs a lot. the war on drugs hasn't changed that in the least. we may have social issues, but as a "relatively upstanding and taxpaying citizen" who also happens to enjoy certain drugs on occasion, i ask. how exactly is my drug use impairing my ability to function in society? i get up and write software all day, why do you care if i get high when i get home?

[Mz]

I am actually sympathetic to your position, though I don't do illicit drugs (or any drugs). But, you would need to up your game if you really want to argue your case on HN. I can think of several good arguments, better than "Why do you care if I get high when I get home?", but this is probably the absolute worst place to have that discussion. You would also need to do a better job of picking your battles. I think neither of us did a good job with that in this case.

Best.

[nnfy]

>But, you would need to up your game if you really want to argue your case on HN. I can think of several good arguments, better than "Why do you care if I get high when I get home?"

There IS no better argument. Pardon my language, but I think a large proportion of the HN community especially agrees with the sentiment of STAY THE HELL OUT OF MY BUSINESS. If what I am doing has no or marginal negative effect on others, as a free human being with rights to self actualization, personal fulfillment, and self-determination, no one has any right tell me what I can and cannot do with myself.

The drug war is fundamentally about the restriction of human rights and invasion of privacy.

[Mz]

Humans are social creatures. If you wish to participate in society -- and you basically have no choice these days, because there seems to be no place on earth where you can completely get away from society -- you have to accept constraints on yourself. Laws that work well put a lot of thought into trying to balance the rights of the group with the rights of the individual. Erring too far in one direction or the other winds up being inherently problematic for all parties. You can't have a healthy group if none of the individuals are healthy, and you can't have a healthy individual if the group as a whole is a sick system.

I can think of lots of better arguments than "stay the hell out of my business." But this thread does not look to me like fertile ground for trying to get into any of that.

[ktta]

>The drug war is fundamentally about the restriction of human rights and invasion of privacy.

The drug war discussions will eventually end up with the argument about whether one has complete autonomy over their body, which isn't the case, because suicide is still illegal. Hell, even euthanasia is so far away from being legal in most of the US.

[dalore]

You don't do any drugs at all? I find that hard to believe So no caffeine, nicotine, alcohol, aspirin etc? No vaccinations. So everything is non drugs at all?

What about all the drugs in your food like meat, do you not eat meat?

You can't say you don't do any drugs. You will say well of course I do X drug, but that's not really a drug like all those others.

[Mz]

Guilty as charged. I eat meat and I consume caffeine.

I even do so consciously and intentionally "for medicinal purposes." I even blog about that fact, which gets largely ignored by the world, never mind that it is obviously revolutionary. However, like Rodney Dangerfield, I get no respect.

But, I have never smoked, I rarely drink alcohol and it has been a lot of years since I took either prescription drugs or OTC drugs or even had a vaccine. (Now cue the folks who will accuse me of being an evil piece of shit anti-vaxxer.)

[PixelB]

It's great to hear that you don't do any drugs at all. I'm assuming you don't drink coffee/tea, wine/beer, smoke, or take any pharmaceutical medications. Congratulations on not being a hypocrite! You are in the proud 0.0001% of people who follow this strict code.

For the rest of us mere mortals, I suppose we will have to continue taking our medications.

[s73ver]

"sure, but what is actually wrong with drug use?"

I don't care; that's not what's being debated here. The fact of the matter is, it's illegal, and anyone who sets up a drug marketplace today knows that. They set it up with full knowledge that they are breaking the law. If they wish to campaign to have drug laws reworked, I'm all for that and wish them the best of luck. But they're not doing that; they're setting up a marketplace with the intentions of making lots of money. They're not fighting for freedom or anything like that; they're just trying to make a quick buck.

And please don't respond with any kind of false equivalence bs. Getting high is not any kind of civil rights struggle. It's nice, but that's it. It is absolutely nothing like civil rights struggles of the past, and comparing it to such events is an extreme disrespect to those struggles and those who went through them.

[Mz]

The fact of the matter is, it's illegal

So was interracial marriage for a long time. So was same sex marriage. Meanwhile, slavery and wife beating were perfectly legal at one time.

Laws are written by people. "It is illegal" is not a moral argument. It simply is not. Asserting that it is illegal completely sidesteps the question asked concerning morality.

[ionised]

Some laws are dumb, and civil diosobedience in the form of a mass breaking of those laws is often the best way.

> Getting high is not any kind of civil rights struggle.

You're right, it's not. At it's core it is a matter of pure, absolute personal choice and that is far more fucking important.

If I want to consume a naturally occuring substance recreationally and I'm not harming anyone, then anyone who disapproves can try to stop me clack clack.

[papaf]

Getting high is not any kind of civil rights struggle. It's nice, but that's it.

I think this is a logical and well reasoned attitude if you are living in an ivory tower and have never been close to an addict. People mostly become addicts in response to something bad happening in their lives.

Punishing fellow human beings for an addiction is wrong. Addicts need treatment and support not punishment.

This may not be a civil rights issue, more common sense and basic decency.

[nnfy]

>People mostly become addicts in response to something bad happening in their lives

This is absolutely untrue. It would seem that you are living in an ivory tower of your own. I won't recount anecdote, but take a look at this source[1].

1. http://theinfluence.org/do-we-overstate-the-role-trauma-play...

[bdcravens]

There's a difference between punishing an addict, and removing access to their provider. At this point, the conversation tends to fork into a discussion on least harm. Nevertheless, when marketplaces like AlphaBay and others are shut down, it's the operators, and sometimes the vendors, who are explicitly punished, not the addicts.

[s73ver]

It's still not. And I am entirely in favor of getting those people help instead of locking them away.

But we're talking about those that set up the stores. They're clearly not helping any of those addicts. And they make a very conscious decision to do something that they know right now breaks the law.

[dalore]

Slaving used to be legal, and helping them escape was illegal. Anyone who helps slaves escape set it up with the full knowledge they are breaking the law.

[s73ver]

This is not a valid rebuttal. Slavery and selling drugs are nowhere near the same thing, and by equating the two, you do a massive disrespect to those who fought for that. Slavery is a civil rights issue; selling drugs is not.

[dalore]

No you are conflating that since something is illegal ergo it's wrong. The point that you're missing is that laws can be wrong and can be changed. Just because something is currently illegal does not make it wrong.

[xj9]

i don't see the point in respecting a law that i don't agree with

[bdcravens]

For the most part, every single person who breaks any kind of a law doesn't agree with the law they're breaking.

[s73ver]

Then work to get it repealed. But I can't have any sympathy for you if you decide to start up a drug selling store, and then get busted for doing something you knew at the time was illegal.

[xj9]

i didn't ask for sympathy either. i know i'm breaking the law, i'm explaining why

[s73ver]

Yet, this is an article about someone who did get busted for selling drugs. And people in this thread are acting like it was some kind of huge civil rights violation. It's not. He wasn't any kind of freedom fighter. He was trying to make a quick buck.

[PixelB]

Your arguments are so baseless and outright ignorant that when I attempt to think about a counter it just makes my brain hurt.. it doesn't matter what points are brought up, you will ignore them all. Have fun being right all the time in your head.