[dis-sys]

how about just focus on the core issue here? the core issue here is how come someone with such an extremist style view got awarded a nobel prize.

or you may want to explain to me how this whole "China needs to be colonized by the west for 300 years" crap is not extremist style.

[pavlov]

Did you actually read the "I Have No Enemies" speech (the linked article)? It is as far from extremism as you can get.

In the speech, Liu spends considerable time praising the Communist Party's progress on human rights:

'The weakening of the enemy mentality has paved the way for the regime to gradually accept the universality of human rights. In [1997 and] 1998 the Chinese government made a commitment to sign two major United Nations international human rights covenants, signaling China's acceptance of universal human rights standards. In 2004, the National People's Congress (NPC) amended the Constitution, writing into the Constitution for the first time that "the state respects and guarantees human rights," signaling that human rights have already become one of the fundamental principles of China's rule of law. At the same time, the current regime puts forth the ideas of “putting people first" and "Creating a harmonious society," signaling progress in the CPC's concept of rule.'

After that, he even praises the progress he saw in jail conditions during the decades he's been in and out of the prison system, and offers thanks to a corrections officer who treated him well!

[jaggederest]

That is not even close to the core issue.

The core issue is that the Chinese government locked someone up for stating an opinion. An opinion not much different in substance than then ones you are stating in this thread.

Would you consider it just for you to be imprisoned for your views alone? I would not, and I think that is also true for other people.

[jdietrich]

>Would you consider it just for you to be imprisoned for your views alone?

In most western democracies, you can be imprisoned for a multitude of "thought crimes" - denying the holocaust, inciting racial or religious hatred, encouraging acts of terrorism etc.

The US has uniquely strong protections for free speech, but even there I expect that many people would support a ban on certain kinds of speech. How many Fox News viewers believe that jihadi preachers should be locked up? How many New York Times readers believe that white supremacists should be locked up?

[echaozh]

Would you consider it just for Snowden to be exiled out of the country?

Would you consider it just for Assange to be under house arrest in an Embassy?

Would you consider it just for Liu Xiaobo to be under house arrest at his own home?

Well, IMHO, all 3 incidents are unjust. However, they all happened.

Interestingly, Liu Xiaobo earned a Nobel price, but Snowden didn't. Not sure what would happen if the Chinese government awarded Snowden or Assange some special prizes.

[pavlov]

The difference is this: Assange and Snowden exposed state secrets. If Liu had done that, he would have been executed a long time ago.

I don't agree with Snowden's treatment either, but it's important not to confuse freedom of speech with dissemination of confidential information.

[jaggederest]

I agree with you on all those fronts. All three should be free, without harassment.

[xupybd]

Remember Assange is wanted for sexual assault and probably should face the sexual assault charges. But it's not realistic that he could do without facing charges related to wikileaks.

[ideal0227]

There are two core issues:

1. Liu is not acceptable by a lot of Chinese people due to his aggressive words on colonial and slavers.

2. Liu was sentenced by the gov due to "subversion".

So to judge Liu, we have to look from at least two different angles, not just "he was sentenced".

Few people thinks 2 is right. I, personally, do not agree on 2 too.

And I am now thinking why most people outside China only know about 2 when they try to judge about Liu?

[literallycancer]

Freedom of speech isn't such a hard concept to understand. Even if you disagree with someone, you don't put them in prison.

[dis-sys]

This has been repeatedly explained: he was not jailed for what he said. His very offensive comments should not get him jailed but with those words in mind, do you think he deserve the nobel peace prize?

If you are interested in how he was jailed, search google, there are tons of articles there.

[23lk4jj4j2]

Hello, I did google it and all I got was he was jailed for 11 years after being convicted of a mysterious charge called "Inciting subversion of state power (煽动颠覆国家政权罪)".

It's not a charge that means a lot to those educated in the west, who would probably view it as a thought crime charge.

Can you explain its use and value better?

[literallycancer]

Why are you avoiding explaining what he was jailed for?

[echaozh]

Hmm, if Trump speaks for the Russian, persuading the Americans that the US should be colonized by the Russians for 300 years, would you think he should be free doing his presidential business? Especially after he (for example's sake) got awarded some Russian prizes?

If he only expresses some views of his, it's probably OK if he's not influential. If he got awarded some prize that's important worldwide and sometimes awarded to POTUS, well, it's totally a different thing.

[jaggederest]

Would I think it was good? No.

Would that alone be enough that I would ask him to be imprisoned? Never.

You're confusing a dislike of his opinions for justification for jailing him, yet again.

[dis-sys]

he is not jailed for stating that view. the reason for this lock up can be easily searched online.

[pavlov]

Why don't you provide a credible source? "Just google for it" is generally what people say to support arguments based on conspiracy theories.

[ideal0227]

Since that is a well known issue about him. No one thinks it is conspiracy theory. If you want to discuss about Liu, I assume you should do some homework first?

[maaaats]

Holy cow, how is him getting a prize the core issue, compared to him and his wife being imprisoned for years for stating political views?

[OnlineCourage]

Ok, here is another quote from Xiaobo in 1990 which shows that he did not hold extremist views as you falsely claim:

My tendency to idealize Western civilization arises from my nationalistic desire to use the West in order to reform China. But this has led me to overlook the flaws in Western culture — or, even if I see them, to set them aside intentionally. I have not, therefore, been able to stand apart from Western culture, take a critical view of it and perhaps get a better view of human frailty more generally. I have been obsequious toward Western civilization, exaggerating its merits, and at the same time exaggerating my own merits. I have viewed the West as if it were not only the salvation of China but also the natural and ultimate destination of all humanity.