[mikestew]

All well and good, none of which is relevant to the story. What is relevant is that the host documented that she doesn’t want to rent to Asians. That’s why the host ended up paying $5K, not because the guest was a pain in the ass.

Yes, if she’d just said, “you’re a pain in the ass, I’m not renting to you”, all would be well. But some people just can’t help themselves, I guess (I’m picturing the host as some letters-to-the-editor crackpot).

[xxSparkleSxx]

Does making racist comments you don't believe make you a racist? Does giving compliments you don't believe make you a nice person?

I seriously don't know. I want to say yes, but maybe not?

I was thinking about this in another context today. When people piss you off, many people (including myself) want to say things to them that will illicit a negative reaction. Often, offensive words seem like a good choice to accomplish that goal. If telling someone "you're a responsible human being who loves his mother" caused someone to be offended, lots of people would say that when they are angry.

I'm totally on the judges sides in this case, once those words come out of your mouth there is no going back and you should be responsible for them.

I guess I just wonder if there is a relatively easy and sure-fire way to piss people off without being offensive? What's a better way for people to express their anger in a childish way ?

[mikestew]

I guess I just wonder if there is a relatively easy and sure-fire way to piss people off without being offensive?

I'll assume we've gone beyond the topic at hand, as I wonder who would wonder how to piss people off as an AirBnB host? :-)

Frankly, I find racial insults to be cheap and unimaginative. Oh, so I'm a $RACIAL_EPITAPH? Well, can't help how I was born. Nice try, though. No points for effort, though. "Maybe you wouldn't have that problem if you'd grow up, learn to accept responsibility, and quit blaming your problems on the actions of others. That failed business? That's wasn't a market problem, an employee problem, that was a you problem."? Oooh, well, that kind of hits close to home.

Never go for the easy insult. Take a few extra moments, find that weak spot, and give that knife a good twist if you're genuinely intending to communicate insult.

[jdmichal]

Reminds me of the listing "When Insults had Class":

http://allowe.com/laughs/book/When%20Insults%20Had%20Class.h...

Some of those are pretty targeted and cut rather close...

[thephyber]

> Does making racist comments you don't believe make you a racist?

I'm under the impression that part of you actually does believe it if you say it. I don't see the mind as one homogeneous thing that requires all thoughts be polarized in the same direction.

[throwaway7312]

The host rented to the guest knowing she was Asian from the start. She didn't have a problem with her race at that point. Things only got nasty once they got nasty.

If you had a nasty fight with someone, and it ended with that person saying, "Well, it's because you're white (or Indian or whatever you are). That's why," would you immediately assume this person hated everyone of your race? Or would you assume you'd gotten under his skin enough that he reached down into his bag of dirty insults and pulled out anything he could find to hit you with?

It'd be one thing if this host never rented to Asians, or responded to an initial query with a message like, "I don't rent to Asians."

But in this case, it looks like a nasty fight between two women, one of whom picked the wrong (politically sensitive) angle to insult the other on, and the other who decided to play up the victim card and record video of herself crying and make a big sob story, and collect a nice little payday for the trouble.

I'd be very curious to know more about Miss Suh's background. In my experience with these sorts of cases, it is rarely the plaintiff's first rodeo.

[mikestew]

But in this case, it looks like a nasty fight between two women

That's where I think my responders are missing my point. If this were just some fight between random women on the street, or two close friends, or neighbors, your description would be accurate. It would neither surprise me, nor give me reason to think much about it. This is not, however, just "between two women". It's a business relationship. That makes things a little different, including entire legal frameworks are built around business relationships. AFAIK, no laws exist that dictate my relationships with personal friends.

Suppose a similar conversation, with similar closing comments, took place at work? Still think it's a fight between two women? Would you get upset if someone got marched down to HR for a little re-education?

Look, I get what y'all are saying; I wouldn't rent to her, either, for the good reasons already outlined. But when we ask ourselves who opened this can of worms, the host is standing there with a dirty can opener. Had the host just cancelled, we probably wouldn't be reading about because nearly everyone would be on the side of the host. But the host just had to bring race into it in a fit of temper. Now all those good reasons go out the window. If you can't keep your temper, and keep your mouth under control, maybe being an AirBnb host isn't for you.

[mikeash]

In your scenario, I would absolutely assume that they hated my race, and that they had merely hidden it. Overt racism is not tolerated in a lot of places, so racists usually learn to hide it. Sometimes it comes out under stress.

Non-racists don't suddenly start making racial comments they don't believe just because they're in a nasty fight.

Racial discrimination doesn't have to be absolute. Saying it can't be discrimination because she didn't reject this guest up-front is nonsensical. When someone shows you who they are, believe them.

[nsxwolf]

Not wanting to rent to Asians isn't a fair housing violation. Not renting to Asians is. She did, in fact, come to a rental agreement with the Asian woman. The desire to not rent to Asians was not stated until after the agreement had been broken for a different (and valid) reason.

[thephyber]

My understanding is that advertising or speaking about such is a violation. I'm pretty sure realtor.org[1] is a fair source of information and informed on the subject.

> Providing false information on the availability of a property for sale or rental based on a person's protected class status—even if that information is based on the owner’s desires. > Don't say: “There’s no point in your showing the Smith’s house to that Hispanic couple; the Smiths will never sell to them.”

[1] http://realtormag.realtor.org/tool-kit/fair-housing/article/...