[sago]

The problem, from my perspective, is you think this is something that needs to be 'known', rather than a basic skill. I think it is basic.

I don't want somebody who 'knows' how to invert a tree, any more than I want someone who's learned the answer to Fizzbuzz.

The point is not that you know how to do it, but that you can naturally perform basic manipulation of very simple data structures. If you can't swap two values, or you can't write recursive code, you may think you're a competent programmer, but I don't agree. What is basic, if that kind of thing is advanced?

If you think an employer expecting that level of competence has 'a sort of attitude', then I don't know what to say. How would you react to someone who felt that way when asked if they could code a loop over a pair of lists, or return a function from a function, or any thing else you consider routine (do you consider anything routine)?

It worries me that programming has become 'copying and pasting from Google' and that people would find it offensive that anyone could possibly have a higher standard than that. If that's a horribly elitist, unacceptably arrogant attitude to you, then again, I don't know what to say.

[am8]

ah did you edit this? I noticed you wrote "you may think you're God's gift to programming, but you're wrong." before removing it (it was gone once I had refreshed). Did you realise you know nothing about me so saying something like that is ridiculous?

I just think people starting out should be supported and being arrogant about it doesn't really help anyone.

[sago]

I did edit, sorry for the original wording. I also get myself into trouble using 'you', which I mostly meant 'one' rather than you specifically. You're right to call me out on it. Sorry again.

So, do you feel like answering the questions in my edited and toned down version?

I confess I am really struggling with this at the moment, because this kind of thing seems to keep coming up. And I honestly cannot figure out where I'm going wrong to expect programmers to be able to do this kind of thing.

[toomuchtodo]

> And I honestly cannot figure out where I'm going wrong to expect programmers to be able to do this kind of thing.

Adjust your expectations.

[Grue3]

Nah. Programmers who write everything by googling+copy-pasting will eventually be replaced by robots. Which will be created by programmers who can come up with an algorithm on their own.

[jungletek]

Why would AI that good only end up replacing the 'shitty' coders?

Methinks you left the last and obvious/inevitable step out.

[toomuchtodo]

Thanks for the laugh today, I needed it.