[coldtea]

>You don't know who someone is until you see them go through poverty.

The inverse is also true: you don't know who someone is until a) they get rich and/or powerful (and change), b) you go to poverty (and e.g. they prove to be only "fair weather friends").

And I would just more harshly someone who reveals themselves to do bad things or be a bad friend when they get rich or when you get poor, than someone doing bad stuff when THEY get poor.

Because desperation can force one to do things they don't want or like (like borrow money and not give it back or even steal), but the others don't have that excuse.

[TheSpiceIsLife]

I think we vastly underestimate how much of an affect our environment-the circumstances we find ourselves in—has on us.

Different aspects of our personality are revealed, or developed(?), in different settings. Temperature, time of day, how tense our muscles / tendons feel, how well we sleep, I think we underestimate how much all of these contribute to what we call 'personality'.

[coldtea]

>I think we underestimate how much all of these contribute to what we call 'personality'.

I agree.

But there are still people who are not changed much in important qualities despite big changes in their circumstances (e.g. from poor to rich, or from obscurity to fame or power, or vise versa) and others who change behavior totally with the subtlest of life changes.

(E.g. now got a more high paying job, let me dump my lower earning friends for people more to my class).

[3pt14159]

Just watch out that they dropped their poor friends for the reason everyone expects.

I don't give a fuck if someone is rich or not, and I have a number of poor friends[1], but I made the conscious decision to cut out friends that I wouldn't befriend if I met them today. Many of the people I cut were poor, but it's not why I cut them. I cut them because they stopped growing after or during highschool. When I talk about politics or society I don't want to feel constrained. I don't want to have to explain things like the catch up effect. I don't want come over with an expensive scotch and have people mix it with Coca Cola.

I understand that labour mobility and the internet have lead to a fracturing of society into different enclaves of intellectual and (usually) fiscal subgroups, but I don't want the only reason I'm hanging out with former highschool friends to be that I read Coming Apart and I'm worried about social cohesion. It's too high of a price.

[1] Most of them are either PhD candidates or in a profession that they love that just generally doesn't pay well, like Singer Songwriter. To me and I feel to most people that cut their social group sometime in their 20s or early 30s class or culture is the critical distinction, not wealth.

[coldtea]

>I don't want come over with an expensive scotch and have people mix it with Coca Cola.

Well, on the other hand, I don't want to be "friends" with people who judge me by my knowledge of drinking etiquette.

Who gives a duck for how one drinks an "expensive scotch" (sic) compared to friendship?

I'm not sure what bond was broken when someone upgraded friends based on how they treated an expensive scotch, but it was no real friendship from that person's end.

While above says "I don't give a fuck if someone is rich or not", the whole criteria seems to be "they're out of my new social class and don't share its interests and pastimes" -- in fact, you openly admit class plays a big role. So it's not about "being rich", but about having brought up and/or behaving as a rich person -- same difference.

>* It's too high of a price.*

The price of keeping a friend like a real friend would do, despite their lack of sophistication?

[3pt14159]

You're focusing too much on one small demonstrative aspect that I shouldn't have even bothered to include because it misses the point.

I have friends with unsophisticated tastes, but they have other aspects that are laudable and interesting. For example I have a friend that works as a stage actor in Toronto. He doesn't have sophisticated tastes, but he's passionate about art and we can discuss aspects of each others work and get mutual enjoyment.

Something I didn't mention in my original comment is that I grew up in a strange part of Canada: Georgetown, Ontario. Georgetown had the last KKK march in Canadian history, it still to this day has not implemented public transit because of fears of enabling people of Pakistani origin, it is the headquarters for Jehovah Witness for Canada, etc.

Why should I continue to befriend people that are mildly to moderately racist. That send me Mary Kay emails. That organize bachelor party cottage weekends knowing full well that I personally find prostitution and stripping disgusting (though I think it should be legal) and purposely hide the fact that they used some of my funds to hire escorts for the weekend. Funds they said would be used for beers and spirits that we recommended on the Facebook event only to buy bud light and Canada Club. "Friends" that waste my time by calling me and asking me if PayPal is a good way of taking money online (I say "no, use Stripe) only to find out that they're involved in some sort of $20 contest on the side of a cereal box and they don't really respect my opinion anyway, they just want to hear that what they want to be true. "Friends" that bitch about high taxes, immigrants, and haven't even done the basic work of thinking through how they would be without public healthcare or how they wouldn't be in the country if their parents didn't come here from Holland in the 50s. But that's ok right, because Dutch people are white. "Friends" that are against same-sex marriage. "Friends" I've never talked to about being Bi and what their supposedly Christian viewpoint would mean for me if I ever wanted to marry a man.

I have nothing in common with these people anymore.

You're right though, it is about class and I'm not so deluded or dishonest to say otherwise. But class isn't wealth, even if it is correlated with it. I demand more out of myself and others and I shouldn't be friends with people just out of loyalty. I should be friends with people because I love them and because I respect them. And history counts for something, but it isn't everything.

[Chris2048]

> I personally find prostitution and stripping disgusting (though I think it should be legal)

seems like they are one "kind of person" and you are a another.

[bigtunacan]

>I don't want come over with an expensive scotch and have people mix it with Coca Cola.

I buy $100+ bottles of bourbon and mix it with cola because it takes good, because I like bourbon and cola. Shitty bourbon and cola still tastes like piss. When I'm with my friends that can only afford a bottle of BV and they bought then I suck it up and drink that and treat them with respect and I don't judge them.

You really sound like you should do some self-reflection because from your post you sound like a total asshole.

[ashark]

> I cut them because they stopped growing after or during highschool. When I talk about politics or society I don't want to feel constrained. I don't want to have to explain things like the catch up effect. I don't want come over with an expensive scotch and have people mix it with Coca Cola.

What you care about is class, not wealth. It's a learned set of knowledge, behaviors, and taste that's very hard to fake or change past childhood. Wealth matters mostly not for its own sake but because keeping up with some class behaviors takes money (or a patron). See also: the trope of the impoverished noble houseguest. Caring more about class than wealth is normal. Mistaking one for the other is itself a class marker.

[coldtea]

>What you care about is class, not wealth. It's a learned set of knowledge, behaviors, and taste that's very hard to fake or change past childhood.

And it's also superficial. One can have "class" and be a class-A a-hole.

[ashark]

Sure. A lack of grace when navigating class differences (=differences in behavior and preferences) could also be seen as a class marker, among other things. Feels rather "middle" under Fussell's rankings of class, but then that's where he put most boorish behavior (maybe for a good reason) and his treatment was too broad to allow for much nuance or coverage of sub-classes, tending to treat the latter as mostly people whose wealth didn't match their socialized class (again, maybe for good reason). Though maybe this whole thing was just your average, everyday "growing apart" with a bit more self-awareness and honesty about the causes than is typical. Maybe the parting from friendship was handled tactfully. Difficult to judge someone just from a post on a web forum.

[Kurtz79]

"Most of them are either PhD candidates or in a profession that they love that just generally doesn't pay well, like Singer Songwriter."

I don't think your definition of "poor" matches most other people's one.

[Sorreah]

So if you have to explain a make-believe theory to a friend, or if they don't want to offend you and mix your "special" ("special" enough that even supposed experts in the field have a hard time identifying whether it's expensive or not) alcohol water with sugar water to make it bearable, they're dead to you.

Because people deserve to be judged on the sensitivity of their taste buds.

Somehow, I believe they're better off.

[dkrich]

"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power." - Abraham Lincoln

[mtgx]

This is also why I think statements like "being rich is a choice" don't come near telling the whole story, if they are even partially true.

Our circumstances probably affect 90% of how we end up doing in life. What if you were born in Nigeria or Syria instead of the U.S.? What if your parents were very poor and without much education themselves, and therefore not only did they not afford to pay for a good education for you, but they also didn't give you the best education at home? And so on, and so on.

[coldtea]

http://thewireless.co.nz/articles/the-pencilsword-on-a-plate

[jondubois]

To an extent, but I think being rich also shields you from reality. Rich people don't realise how greedy they are because no one ever dares to tell them or even hint at it.

They get used to getting extra attention, extra laughs at their jokes, extra compliments about how generous they are, etc... Over time, their idea of normal becomes very abnormal.