[FireBeyond]

Not sure why you're downvoted, you're right.

Tesla S starts at $57K.

- Mercedes S starts at $97K - Panamera starts at $86K - 6/7 series start at $81K/$83K.

You're right, you're looking at mid-range Audis and the like. But having been in a 2016 S and several Audis the interior quality is hugely different. The Audi feels great, and the S felt like my eight year old Altima.

I don't want to sound like a hater - the Tesla is a lot of fun to drive, and I like electric, but still.

[Retric]

That's just sticker price, many of those cars get sold at a a minor price premium to a ~30% discount.

Which is why the monthly sales are all over the map:

http://carsalesbase.com/us-car-sales-data/porsche/porsche-pa...

  2016
  January 336 February 293 March 334 April 371 
  2017
  January 35 February 28 March 554 April 1098  <Likely discounts

[Vik1ng]

     <Likely discounts

Or you know they just introduced a new model...

[Retric]

EU sales show very different trends. http://carsalesbase.com/european-car-sales-data/Porsche/Pors...

January 2016: 227 vs 2017: 660

[Vik1ng]

Yeah, because it takes time to get the cars to the US-

[Zanni]

The Telsa Model S starts at $70, not $57K. You're quoting the "after estimated savings price" which includes the tax credit (a debatable inclusion) and the savings in fuel over five years (ridiculous to include in a cross-class comparison).

[giobox]

It depends which Model S you buy though.

It's possible to spec one well north of 100k (isn't a P100D around 140ish?), at which point comparisons to S-classes and 7 series and so on surely must cross the minds of some buyers. I completely agree regarding cabin quality though.

[rgbrenner]

Looking at the price range just reinforces that they're not in the same class:

Telsa S: $57-140k

Mercedes S-Class: $97-226k

That's a 70% increase at the bottom and 60% at the top.

[Retric]

https://www.edmunds.com/tesla/model-s/2017/cost-to-own/ https://www.edmunds.com/mercedes-benz/s-class/2017/cost-to-o...

  2017 Tesla Model S Average Price Paid $86,200
  2017 Mercedes-Benz S-Class Average Price Paid $98,958

Which is just under 15%.

[FireBeyond]

That's misleading.

For the S class: "Based on S 550e Plug-In Hybrid with options".

As soon as you select any other model:

* S550 - $108,506

* S63 - $196,496

* S65 - $241,129

* others - $180K, $230K.

So the S-Class is "for the base model" but using it as a litmus for the S class range is no different to only looking at the Model S 60, at $68K.

[Retric]

"April 16th, 2017 will be the last day to order the Model S 60 and 60D."

https://electrek.co/2017/03/17/tesla-discontinuing-model-s-6...

So, the S 60 does not exist anymore. Further the other models are not electric cars.

"Like the W221 S500, the W222 S-Class will be powered by a more powerful twin-turbo V8 producing 455 hp (339 kW) while the S600 will carry a twin-turbo V12. There is also a diesel-powered S350 BlueTEC version, a hybrid S400 with a 20-kilowatt electric motor and 306 hp (228 kW) V6 engine, a diesel-electric hybrid S300 BlueTEC. A S500 Plug-in Hybrid was later introduced at the Frankfurt Motor Show (IAA) with a market release of 2014 and claimed a 3 litres/100 km mileage, a CO2 rating of 69 g/km and up to 30 km of emissions free driving. The S500 Plug-In hybrid is fitted with a 329 hp (245 kW) 3-litre V6 and an 80-kilowatt electric motor.[25][26] AMG fettered S63 (V8 bi-turbo) and S65 (V12 bi-turbo) LWB sedans are also on offer. All S-Class models will come with a 7-speed automatic transmission.[27]" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_S-Class

[takeda]

I would say price ranges are more reliable.

Also since there's no dealers, Edmunds simply just copied MSRP, which also is incorrect TBH because it is not the price for basic model without upgrades.

[LMYahooTFY]

"Class" is not determined exclusively by price point as much as automotive magazines assert that is the only delineation.

It's going to put people in or out of a price tier, but how many people that can afford both are going "oh no, that's just below the price tier I want to buy into".

Sure that's a subtle piece of the puzzle, not a conscious decision.

When you look at the other pieces, like features and performance, the Model S is on par with the rest of the luxury sedans or better. Mercedes, BMW, Porsche, Bentley, Rolls, etc.

[FireBeyond]

> When you look at the other pieces, like features and performance

Yeah, have you compared say "cabin quality" to a Bentley or Rolls? That's another piece that falls way short. Even to a C/E Mercedes.

Door handles being ... problematic, etc, are things that push the S from being "on par" with those cars you name.

[LMYahooTFY]

Honestly if you think door handles are what push a Mercedes off of "par", then I don't have a response as this seems like a debate about what's subjective and/or important....

I've actually worked at luxury car dealers, I don't find Bentley or Rolls cabin quality to be better than a Mercedes, and I've driven all of them around at least once. Automotive engineering doesn't precisely follow the price curve.

Bentlty and Rolls are covered in a lot more veneer and aesthetics.

They get away with it because they put in monster engines to push their giant hyper-insulated boxes pretty quickly in a straight line and that's about all. The s class is designed to a slightly different specification.

[FireBeyond]

> I don't find Bentley or Rolls cabin quality to be better than a Mercedes

I've only been in a Bentley once, and I think you misunderstand. The quality of -either- a Bentley, Rolls, Mercedes, Audi or whatever, all of those, far exceeds the Model S, which is more akin in cabin quality to my old Altima.

[LMYahooTFY]

I did, I thought you meant the S class, although my rides in a couple of different trim levels of the Model S didn't leave me with that impression.

I would agree with you as far as aesthetic preference goes, but if you view this as an objective metric similar to cabin space, audio/onboard computer performance, etc. then I would disagree.