[MarkMc]

> BY DEFINITION a free market in healthcare MUST kill people

I'm not sure this is true. Does a free market in food require that some people starve to death? Right-wing ideology says that even the poor have enough to buy food, clothing, shelter and medical insurance. If a poor person buys a mobile phone instead of health insurance, it's because they value the phone more than their health - why should you force someone to buy something that is less valuable?

Perhaps you argue that the poor don't have enough money to buy health insurance. In that case the right-wing answer is to give the poor money with which to buy whatever they prefer. Hypotheically everyone could buy health insurance and noone would die of treatable diseases.

[taylodl]

Please cut it out with pretending the poor prefer to buy a cellphone instead of health care. The most expensive phone on the market, the iPhone, costs less than one month of health insurance premiums. And most poor people aren't using iPhones - most are using Androids they bought for a few bucks on a plan. That is to say, a modern smartphone costs the same as a landline phone of yore. That's not even getting into the whole discussion of their smartphone is typically the only computer they have. Try navigating our healthcare system without a phone or a computer. Good luck with that.

[MarkMc]

Actually I'm not pretending anything - I'm just stating the right-wing, free-market ideology. I happen to support a single-payer healthcare model because it will reduce overall health costs and maximise long-term GDP. But let me play devils advocate for a minute and respond your your comment about smartphones:

Nobody is claiming that a smartphone would pay the full cost of a persons healthcare. But it would pay for some health insurance - perhaps two or three weeks, by your count. (And don't confuse this with internet access: A 5-year-old smartphone with a cracked screen costs next to nothing on eBay). Therefore anyone who buys a brand new phone - either outright or on a contract - has given up the opportunity to buy a few weeks of health insurance.

And there are many other similar opportunities for poor people, including:

- If you buy branded goods like Nike or Adidas, buy non-branded clothes and shoes instead

- If you drink or smoke, stop

- If you are overweight or obese, eat less

- If you buy food from convenience stores or restaurants, stop. Instead, make a weekly trip to Costco or Walmart and buy food in bulk.

- Change your diet to the cheapest foods that still provide nutrition. For example, maybe potatoes are cheaper than bread and just as healthy. Don't like potatoes? Too bad.

- Typically the best-paid jobs are in a city or town center, while cheapest accommodation is far away. So if your total weekly commute and work time is less than 60 hours per week, live further away from your job to increase your commute time and decrease your rent or mortgage payments.

- Look up the top 5 cities in the US with the highest wages and lowest unemployment, then move to one of them.

- If there are less than 2 people per bedroom in your household, take in a paying lodger. If your landlord doesn't allow it, move. If you are a single person then move into a 3-bedroom house with 5 other single people.

You may think that these opportunities are not valid, or that they still would not pay the full cost of health insurance. In that case the right-wing solution is to give money to poor people - and not to force them to buy health insurance or provide government-run healthcare.