[cmurf]

The point is that society can be confused on what is positive and negative behavior, and end up scapegoating. And it is effective only in a reptilian brain context.

It'd be similarly ignorant to praise murdering your enemies. Sure no doubt about it, it's really effective. Doesn't mean it's legal or ethical.

These things are brute force hammers. If you really think shaming has value, read the Scarlet Letter.

[themacguffinman]

Of course shaming can be abused or misguided, just like almost everything in this world we live in. The idea that we shouldn't use something just because it can possibly be abused is ridiculous. Like everything, it has a degree of risk that we weigh and judge as moral agents.

And we all live in a "reptilian brain context". I'm not sure what other context there is. It makes no sense to reason about society as if we weren't all half a chromosome away from a chimpanzee.

[cmurf]

Your idea of shaming works only because you've had success bullying weaker opponents who back down, and appear to learn the "lesson" you're generously handing out.

Find an on par opponent and you'll get escalation of shaming, get your ass handed back to you with wit, or the person will just ignore you.

So I refuse that it's effective. It's perhaps been effective for you, self selective bias. You probably don't shame people you've sized up who won't respond to shaming the way you want.

[themacguffinman]

In case you've forgotten, this discussion thread is about societal shame, not individual bullying as you seem to imply. Societal shame isn't individuals engaging other individuals in some kind of shame battle. It actually consists of collective exclusion and isolation. Society (and the institutional structures that comprise it) doesn't get its "ass handed back" by people who buck its pressures; at most, these pariahs ignore society and get ignored in return.

But yeah, I totally only believe this because I'm a successful bully (◔_◔)