[kbenson]

> Having bad people say damaging untrue things is a necessary cost we must be willing to bear in order to have a truly free internet.

Is it? It's not a necessary thing that we must be willing to bear to have freedom of speech in the United States (if you believe we have freedom of speech in the United States). We have libel and slander laws, and other exceptions. I don't see people shouting those down often. Do you believe those should not exist? If not, what makes the internet different?

1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_free_speech_exce...

[labster]

Libel and slander laws can only be applied if you know the identity of the person who did it, and have enough money to hire an attorney to go after the person.

Right now if you google my name, there's a forum out there that says I'm a child molester based on zero evidence, and the only reason it's up is because I am following my legal requirements as a website operator per the ToU to not release personally identifying information on one of my users. I've talked to attorneys about it, but the consensus is that I'd need at least $30k to chase the guy down, with no guarantee of a return at the end, and that in the meantime harassment from this guy would get worse.

So maybe people saying damaging untrue things is a necessary cost for freedom of speech, but it's sure as hell a pain in the ass if you're on the wrong side of it.

[dragonwriter]

> Libel and slander laws can only be applied if you know the identity of the person who did it, and have enough money to hire an attorney to go after the person.

The latter part is true, the former part is less so; you can use John/Jane Doe lawsuits and then subpoena third parties to discover the specific identities.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doe_subpoena

[labster]

The problem is there's pretty good evidence that the person is in another country, based on activity time, etc. The problem isn't that I can't file, the problem is that there's no guarantee I can find someone actionable on the the other side of the filing.

[michaelmrose]

I have a feeling with a bit of research you could start enough of a lawsuit to convince the website to give up the information for less than $100 a few hours of work.

If they were reluctant their host might well be willing to drop them to avoid being dragged into it.

YOU can probably avoid thousands of dollars in costs by doing a bit of legwork they probably aren't as lucky.

[labster]

The website in question is owned by the libelous one, so the first idea won't work.

As far as the host, the problem turns into the same one as the IP enforcement has: Kill one head, and two more appear. My slanderer appears to not have a job, so it's no problem for him to keep moving on and getting new hosting. And for the next host he lands on, I've made myself a real target of that website.

Half the time I feel like this is a real problem with UBI proposals -- if we let people have free time all day, a certain fraction is going to waste it with libel or gamergate or SJW stuff, where the people who actually do something with their lives get attacked for no apparent reason. Like, I'm a huge fan of UBI, but without social support for self-worth outside of paid work, it's going to create a whole new set of social problems. Still a more tractable problem than poverty, I'd hope.