[cryptica]

I've been programming for 13 years. I started when I was 14 years old and studied software engineering at university. These days, when I take on well-paid contract work, sometimes I find myself working alongside people who only started learning to code at around 25 and never went to university.

It's upsetting for me to think of all the fun I missed out on in my early life because I was learning programming and pushing myself through university and it turns out that it doesn't even get me a higher pay check in the end.

These days, nobody cares that I'm proficient in all of ActionScript 2 , ActionScript 3, C/C++, C#, Java, Python, AVR studio (microcontroller programming), MySQL, Postgres, MongoDB, RethinkDB, PHP, Zend, Kohana, CakePHP, HTML, CSS, Docker, Kubernetes, AWS, JavaScript, Node.js, Backbone, CanJS, Angular 1, Angular 2, Polymer, React, Artificial Neural Networks, decision trees, evolutionary computation, times/space complexity, ADTs, 3D shaders programming with OpenGL, 3D transformations with matrices, image processing... I can't even list them all. I could wipe out 95% of these skills from my memory and get paid the same.

It only gives me extra flexibility... Which it turns out I don't need because I only really need two of these languages (C/C++ and JavaScript) and a couple of databases.

[tvelichkov]

So you did learn programming, because you wanted a great paycheck 13 years later? Lol, that's just stupid. I advised everyone from my circle to stay away from programming unless they fell in love with it. It's pointless to be a programmer if you don't have it in your heart.

However, if you did enjoy, then there is nothing to be upset about, I mean you are doing what you love right? If its all about your paycheck you could try finding another employer, but not everything in this life should go around money, there are more important things, find people who could appreciate you and your values, be happy what you do and maybe the money will come later.

[UncleMeat]

Really? If I didn't have to work I wouldn't write another line of code in my life. But its a great career that hits all of the notes I wanted for a job. What's wrong with that?

[tvelichkov]

> I wouldn't write another line of code in my life.

I personally see this as a problem, having to do something I don't like.. for years... probably for life?

[swiley]

>So you did learn programming, because you wanted a great paycheck 13 years later?

I don't know, I did something similar and didn't care about how much I would get paid. I learned because I loved it.

But almost no one warned me about what I was missing out on because they kept saying that I was spending my time well based on the whole money thing. (in fact, there where many people who said I was spending my time better than most of my peers because of this.)

[tvelichkov]

You are 27 right now right? Your life has just started, what did you actually miss that you cannot do now?

[cutler]

I take it you're single. Factor in the requirements of mortgage and supporting a family then consider whether you have the option of only doing what you love. I'd love to programme exclusively in Clojure but the job market dictates otherwise. Python's the most likely and at least it's not PHP or Java but that's as good as it'll get for steady money.

[tvelichkov]

Nah, I have 3yrs old son, but this does not stop me from trying to make living with something I love to do. I actually think that if you hate your job, but make good money, this will be worst for your family/kids, because you are gonna start bringing all this negative energy at home.

[jondubois]

I was passionate for the first 11 years. The last 2 I did it for the money.

After solving so many difficult problems in my life, I feel that the only difficult problem left for me to solve is making lots of money.

[jriot]

You forget that those of us who learned to program later in life were doing other things the company finds valuable. I am 32 and have been a data scientist for the past 3 years - completing my PhD in mathematics. Prior to that I was an air traffic controller and prior to that I spent all my time playing sports - not once did I sit down and teach myself to code.

The skills I learned that don't relate to coding are how to effectively work on a team, how to handle extremely stressful situations (no situation will compare to pushing tin in Iraq), how to lead and have people wanting to follow, how to communicate verbally and in writing, how to just do something without seeking approval etc... I could go on.

Just because you spent the past 13 years learning numerous technologies and missed out on fun doesn't mean those of us who learn to code later in life aren't as valuable. We have skills and talents you might not see but are deemed equally as valuable to our employer.

[TheCoelacanth]

> I could wipe out 95% of these skills from my memory and get paid the same.

A typical rockstar could probably wipe 95% of the songs from their mind and still get paid the same, but they never would have made it to that point if they had only ever played the ten songs that are actually on their set list.

There are a lot of general skills that you pick up along the way while you are learning the more specific things that end up mattering more long-term.

[pc86]

> I could wipe out 95% of these skills from my memory and get paid the same.

You are correct.

If you're being paid for C++ programming, does it matter that you know AWS in and out? You're absolutely a better programmer all around, a more well-rounded technical expert, etc, but the C++ you produce is not inherently better because you messed around with CakePHP (lol) back in the day.

[speedplane]

A lot has changed in the past 5 years or so. Anecdotally, 5 years ago I'd bet that 90% of programmers either had a CS background or something very similar (ECE or Comp. Eng.).

Today, I think that number is down to 50% or maybe even less. So many of my friends who went to excellent schools but had degrees in Biology, Biotech, Physics, and even some social degrees (including a pianist) now are full-time programmers.

I agree with your sentiment though; if you don't need a CS degree to get a CS job, then maybe try something else during college. Take programming courses at your local coding bootcamp.

[52-6F-62]

To add some anecdotal support: I land in a similar, but different camp.

Self taught programmer (started at a young age out of interest), working in the field in sort of a generalist dev position at a large media company. I'm out of practise with my math, but trying to kickstart myself to return to university for studies in Physics. Maybe a bit of a reversal?

Programming jobs are a great practical employment solution, but personally I feel compelled by my drive to see behind the curtain too much to settle. As well, to seek out further innovation on the application side I have this sense that there needs to be far more crossover than there is presently.

All this and I started out studying English at U of T, and didn't get to finish (financial reasons). And here we are.

[speedplane]

Just two points:

> Programming jobs are a great practical employment solution

I entirely agree, but I wouldn't discount a "great practical employment solution." Compared to the alternatives, programming jobs often pay better, have a much better lifestyle, and are far more gratifying. Very few get exceedingly wealthy, but it's a very respectful position where you get to use your intellect.

> personally I feel compelled ... to seek out further innovation on the application side I have this sense that there needs to be far more crossover than there is presently.

Ideally, everyone would be an expert programmer AND an expert in something else. Having a strong command of a programming language is much like having a strong command of the English language. It's a valuable skill, but far more valuable if you have something interesting to say.

[shade23]

>ActionScript 2 , ActionScript 3, C/C++, C#, Java, Python, AVR studio....I could wipe out 95% of these skills from my memory and get paid the same.

Yes you're right about this.Programming is quite similar to math in that aspect. Great debugging skills and understanding can replace the requirement for all of this.

But you seem to be missing the point here. There is a difference between learning a language and the frameworks compared to learning _why_ a language and _why_ a framework. This is what ~60% of today's "coders/programmers" miss and are unable to understand.

Learning the why helps you pick up things much easily. The effort you would have to put in to learn any new languages would be considerably much lesser compared to others.

A commonly quoted line in the industry is , "you need more breadth than depth".

And you wipe out a lot of skills on a regular basis. This is not a conscious effort that you make. It just happens to everyone.

I'm not trying to say that the late blooming programmers do not understand the "why" bit, but rather that a lot of programmers do not. I am one of those self taught programmers who loves exploring the why. And it makes my life much easier than those who do not. So revel in knowing that you are capable of picking up new skills much easily compared to others. That IMHO is a much more important characteristic than knowing a million languages/systems/frameworks.

[soVeryTired]

Nice to see the hacker ethos is still alive and well.

[scandox]

If you want money, don't be a jobbing programmer. Either make something with all these extraordinary skills you have and own it. Or go into Sales or Management, where there is real career progression with rewarding financial incentives.

[fidraj]

Yes but you can use your advantages. It's only about finding the right opportunity.