[projectramo]

This is generally a decent article about the balancing non-technical skills, and exerting effort in learning.

I found it noteworthy that the "hook" in the title is that the person started in (gasp) their 30s. Why should that be noteworthy? Why wouldn't someone start coding in their 30s, 40s or 50s?

Now it is true that starting a new profession late in life may not always make sense because, presumably, you have to little time left you might as well "ride it out" contributing what you know.

So, yes, it is unusual for a doctor to start learning mathematics in their 40s (though not unheard of: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endre_Szemer%C3%A9di), but it isn't less strange to make such a change in computer science than any other field.

[tannhauser23]

I started learning to code in my 30s and I found articles like this very helpful. You're right - why should age matter? But it does, at least in one's own mind. When you've spent your 20s working in a different field, it's very easy to get stuck. It just gets harder and harder to mentally motivate yourself to study something new and pursue a different career. Hearing from other people who have gone through the same struggle tells you that, hey, this is possible! Especially in an industry full of people who have been coding since they were children.

[buckbova]

> Why should that be noteworthy?

Because there's perceived ageism in this industry, so saying you're just getting started in your 30's is interesting.

[projectramo]

Isn't the same ageism -- true or perceived -- in all industries?

Would you be feel comfortable starting med-school in your 30s? A PhD? Training to be a plumber or an architect?

If anything, because programming takes a shorter time to become productive (say 2 years), I would think it would attract older job switchers.

(edit: Before people give me counter-examples, note:I know these things do happen)

[csa]

> Isn't the same ageism -- true or perceived -- in all industries?

Hmmmm... in a handful of industries I might say yes, but in many others I would say no.

I see an abundance of discrimination against younger in many industries. Either they are looked at as lacking knowledge, experience, or both. Often times this perception is justified, but often it is not. Of course, there is no legal recourse since age discrimination in the US is mostly (always?) for people 40 and older.

That said, the ageism in technology in the Bay Area and a few other areas is peculiar and does not seem to be particularly widespread outside of these regions (at least in the US). This ageism seems to follow a few patterns:

1. People in the capital class working young people hard for low pay... because they can. Most older folks won't put up with it for justifiable reasons. These are often terrible places to work and are often terrible businesses as well.

2. Really smart and creative young people who want to work with similarly-minded people without having to manage a potential or real generation gap. This is probably closer to being justifiable when at a very small scale, but it's still potentially illegal, especially as scale increases. This is the sort of headline discrimination that is seen in the Bay Area -- a 20-something superstar typically doesn't have the "soft skills" necessary to manage someone a decade or two older. Few people at that age do, but this is especially true for folks who spent their younger years developing their non-managerial specialist knowledge.

3. "Culture fit". Some (many?) younger folks in the Bay Area seem to want to extend their college partying years. This means that older and potentially more conservative or parent-like figures are not particularly welcome. I think that this is not uncommon at any favored destination of recent high-achieving college graduates (as well as wannabe high achievers).

If someone in their 30s or 40s wants a job in tech, one easy way is just to get away from the areas that are flooded with high-achieving recent college grads. The areas that are flooded with these types have very real ageism problems. The areas that have few of these folks (most areas) largely don't have ageism problems -- if anything, younger applicants are more likely to be perceived negatively. Admittedly, the latter places are often less cool (i.e., not Bay Area, not NYC, not Austin, etc.), but these places have jobs.

[truthseeker1024]

I am a mature worker looking in the Washington dc area. There seems to be a lot of competition. Do you think I would have better luck in Atlanta?

[csa]

I honestly don't know what the job market is in Atlanta.

That said, the US government and contractors thereof desperately need programmers and programmers who can do other stuff (e.g., manage a contract, project management, etc.). I would try to meet some people who do this type of work and have a coffee with them. Many of these folks live in the D.C. area.

It's not sexy at all, and you won't get rich via a startup, but there are very solid middle class jobs in that category.

[truthseeker1024]

thank you for the reply and advise

[taurath]

Not really. The problem in general is that there are very few active "junior" level positions about, and a lot of people wanting to break in - see /r/cscareerquestions. For later learners especially self taught learners the problem really comes from finding the FIRST job, not the second when they have professional experience.

Coming out of college though is a different experience. If you're 33 and just finished a BS in CS you could probably make a run at most jobs. But self taught at 33 requires a lot more to get in the door than self taught at 25.

[ryandrake]

There may not be a lot of jobs out there for junior people but there are very few out there for people with 20+ years of experience, either. Everyone seems to be looking for that “4-6 year” sweet spot where they think they are getting the best of both worlds: someone senior enough to have made and learned from a few mistakes but not too senior that they have to offer more than peanuts and worthless equity as pay.

[flukus]

I think it depends on the technology stack actually, I've noticed it's been trending up in mine (.net) with many now wanting 8-9 years experience. It seems like the sweet spot is generally age of technology divided by 2.

[flukus]

Other industries (most anyway) don't whinge about a chronic skills shortage and rely on imported (and exported) labor as much as ours does.

[SilasX]

Yeah, I think the relevant part is "getting into software/tech in 30s", not learning to code per se which should be non-newsworthy at least through one's 50s.

Then again, I changed careers into software in my 30s (had just turned 30 when I left aerospace), though I had coded in some capacity my entire life. Newsworthy?

[phlakaton]

Maybe! You never know who you're going to inspire. :-)

[budman1]

s/50/90/

[ggambetta]

I found the article very interesting, and I thought the hook was valid - coding is one of these disciplines where the general consensus is that you need to start very young to be good, similar to Olympic athletes. I wrote my first trivial but working program aged 5 so I believe this to be true to some extent; reading an experience that contradicts this was valuable to me.

I also liked the article for a different reason; I don't aspire to be an Olympic athlete but I do want to become good at certain skillsets that I've only started exploring after my 30s, so I'm definitely hoping the author's experience generalises, and rooting for him :)

[ourmandave]

I wonder if we'll start seeing want ads for Olympian level coders (instead of mere rock stars).

[sumoboy]

I agree about the age reference, it's irrelevant. If grandma wants to learn javascript then so be it, challenge the brain and code away. I don't find his story that uplifting or even worthy of a challenge that any other 30 year couldn't do.