[bobcallme]

> he'd likely close the business and she (my family member) would end up being worse off.

>>This is exactly the train of thought I think is incorrect: Businesses that can't pay workers a living wage should have to shut down.

So are you saying that no business should ever start or get off the ground because they don't have all the funding they need to do so (including paying proper wages)? Many of these minimum wage jobs were not suppose to be a full-time career path. These jobs were intended for people getting their first job, people in retirement or those seeking just a little bit of extra cash.

[alkonaut]

Short answer: yes.

Long answer: Yes, and it's an acceptable drawback because being allowed to underpay worker is an unacceptable competitive edge. If one wants exceptions it's better to do with directed efforts such as lower payroll taxes for small or new companies.

[bobcallme]

So I guess I should just give up and stop working on anything since I don't get paid for what I do and it might be "..an unacceptable competitive edge".

[alkonaut]

Not sure how hobby or volunteer work has anything to do with that. A bit strawman-y.

That said - where I live it's also not allowed to volunteer at e.g. a home for the elderly, because the union would feel you are taking their work.

So it's not all positive.

[bobcallme]

> Not sure how hobby or volunteer work has anything to do with that. A bit strawman-y.

It's not a hobby or volunteer work if the end goal is to start a successful business. Some of us are (again) not lucky to be born with a silver spoon in their mouth or have some VC drop money in our laps to start something.

> ...where I live it's also not allowed to volunteer at e.g. a home for the elderly

I'm very glad that I don't live where you do since it seems like a place that is hostile towards humanitarian efforts and kindness.

>...because the union would feel you are taking their work.

So what if the unions feel that you are taking their work? After being a part of a union for several jobs, I am very much against them since they took a large portion of my pay for nothing in return.

I'm sure that there are many founders out there who worked long hours with little to no pay to start their companies since they lacked investors or bootstrapping funds. These minimum wage laws only drive up the cost of living, drive out jobs and make it even more difficult to start a business. My stance is that there should be no minimum wage and if the pay is too low, go find a job where the pay is not too low.

[alkonaut]

A personal business such as an early 1 person startup isn't paying anyone wages so I don't see how minimum wages apply at all tbh. Minimum wages are for employees.