[nopinsight]

It seems math textbooks in the US are 2-3 grade levels easier than those in East Asia. SAT Math is considered a piece of cake even by non-top but good students there. I heard Russian math is similarly rigorous.

This reduces the level of logical thinking skills most American children get to practice from school. Programming well requires good abstract and logical thinking which is easier to develop from a young age. Thus the US math education may in effect reduce the chances of many people achieving their potentials.

Tangentially, can someone knowledgeable shed light on why American math curriculum is significantly easier than those in East Asia and Russia?

[arkades]

The 2-3 grade delta sounds about right. I was a good but not too math student in (Eastern European) country before moving here. I Didn't have to open a math book again for about 3 years. Most of my friends from the same generation of immigrants would give the same number.

More was simply expected of us. Not "hoped for" or "aspired to", but expected. And parents weren't at loggerheads with teachers; what teachers said was law. So if a teacher said you were learning the multiplication table this week, parents didn't argue it was too much, or encourage you to "do your best." You'd be drilled on those times tables until you wanted to kill someone, but you'd damn well be expected to have them memorized by the end of the week.

The idea that people were driven by good money is a western misinterpretation, or whatever the cultural equivalent of anachronism is. My grandmother used to scold my aunt for marrying an engineer instead of a tin knocker, like my mother did, because tin knockers brought home the real money.

I think those two elements - expectations and parental cooperation - don't get enough credit, by far.

[kinkrtyavimoodh]

As someone who grew up in India, I can attest this about the education system there too. This whole culture of parents always ready to come and fight with teachers over the smallest things just didn't exist. Other than in extraordinary circumstances, you gave the teacher and the system the benefit of doubt.

If you were scolded by the teacher, there was a good chance you would get another scolding back at home once your parents found out about the incident.

Unfortunately (or not?), through what seems to be a western influence, this is slowly degrading.

[kamaal]

>>Other than in extraordinary circumstances, you gave the teacher and the system the benefit of doubt.

This is changing or has changed in India. These days you can't do anything much to the child, even if the child is clearly getting spoilt. Parents seem to have very bloated egos these days.

The bad side effect of this is many teachers don't really have the same degree of connect with their pupils these days. So its largely like - "What have I too lose, should you get spoilt' mentality is getting common.

In a generation back during my parents's time, teachers were literally looked up as very honorable and respectable. I even know of an incident which my uncle told. He used to play a lot and was not good at studies, when he passed examinations, my grandparents would go to the school and ask the teachers if they gave their pupil a honest evaluation. They literally would be surprised if he got a pass, and asked the teachers to be honest if had failed. Compare this with parents today.

This reminds of a song in Hindi from the movie '3 idiots':

kandho ko kitabo ke boj pe jhukaya, rishwat dena to khud papa ne sikhaya

[xdna]

This is true. Discipline is very important in learning process. Another important thing is - completing at least primary education in mother tongue which improves thinking process. Sadly these days parents prefer international public schools.

[ivansavz]

For sure parents play a big role. The "forced practice" and colaboration with the teachers certainly are factors. I think a socio economic context also plays an important role.

In an affluent family (as define by people who didn't have to worry about money for three generations) access to education is a given, and therefore less valued.

If your family is poor and your access to education is more uncertain, you'd value what you get to learn a lot more. In this context learning and persevering takes on a dimension of "duty" to help out the family. This feeling of duty towards your family caused by family poverty can transfer for several generations. If you grow up aware of the the struggle that your parents and grandparents had to go through to get to where you are now, you end up feeling obliged to learn this math thing.

[kevin_thibedeau]

Logical thinking skills are the gateway to independent thought. Too much of that and the proles could stage a revolt.

[webnrrd2k]

Wouldn't that be true in Russia and East Asia as well?

[kevin_thibedeau]

Except their citizens are aware that their freedom is constrained. Americans are deluded by the "land of the free" mantra. The powers that be don't want to face a collective red pill movement.

[pps43]

> why American math curriculum is significantly easier than those in East Asia and Russia?

I see three reasons.

1. In the US, no child can be left behind. The only way to do it is to lower the plank for everyone.

2. Over-reliance on standardized testing, judging students and teachers by scores alone. Knowing how and when to intelligently guess on multiple choice questions is rewarded, while ability to communicate well during oral exam is not.

3. Textbooks are ridiculous. Lots of paper, with very little density, and crazy expensive. Textbooks in Russia are more like AoPS books.

[ivansavz]

I totally hear you about 3. I was super shocked when I (North America educated) went to visit a university bookstore in Bulgaria. For around $5 I was able to buy a "Mathematical methods of physics" book that covered in 300 pages the material that I had learned from three or four books. Sure the book did almost no "hand holding" and just blaster through the material, but still—it was all there.

I've been recently looking at middle school and high school math textbooks and they're even worse than the books for first-year undergraduates. Yes, treat the reader as if they're an idiot and spell everything out and make them practice the steps. It's like the books are written by helicopter authors who insist on showing you their way. No wonder kids are not into math.