| >The foundations of libertarianism is a belief that individual rights and human rights are supreme. Trust me, I don't need a lecture on the foundations of libertarianism. I've read enough Rothbard and company to get a pretty good feel for it. >I don't believe a majority, or a democratically elected sovereign, has the right to curtail the freedoms and rights of individuals. That's what being discussed here. I know what you believe. >A "moral" system that deprives people of human rights, is amoral, and not worthy of honor or respect. It's up to you to decide what you think is worthy of honor and respect, and up to me to make the choice for myself. >By your moral framework, the German people, who elected Hitler into power, had every right in the world, to murder and slaughter millions of Jews, Roma, Slavs/Poles, and others. It was justified by the Nazi moral framework. Hitler may have had the power to do those things. I'm not sure where you think I suggested he had a moral right to do them. >This is why moral relativism is a bane, and a curse, and the source of many evils. I agree with you that moral relativism is a bad ideology for a society to be founded up, in terms of achieving stable, wealthy, and peaceful societies. That said, it is a question of fact whether there is actually some absolute objective morality, and as far as I can tell, one does not exist. >With regards to immigration, you have no right to demand the loyalty of others towards you or anyone else I'm not sure why you're still telling me what I have the right to do or what I don't have the right to do. I know what your preferred moral system says I have a right to do. As it happens, I don't demand loyalty of people, I'd just rather that the people around me be loyal to me, and it's quite clear that certain human beings are more likely to be loyal to me than others are, and that there are policies that can discriminate on that characteristic and so achieve the result I desire. >Visa restrictions are similar to banning interracial marriage. I'm not sure why you're still listing things you think I will think are horrible in order to get me to agree with you. As I said, even if I sympathize with you on some point, it doesn't make your system universal. >that I give zero fucks about your self-interest, as long as you pursue your self-interest in a manner that respects the rights of others. I'm not sure why you would bother to write something like this. You do give zero fucks about my self-interest when I pursue it in a manner that doesn't respect what you think are the rights of others, and it's clear that's what we're talking about here. >You're basically saying, I will continue to violate the rights of others, enslave others, oppress others -- until someone more powerful stops me. I said that as a matter of fact that is what certain people did. >In other words, your moral framework can be summed up in three words: might is right. Might determines what happens is reality. I acknowledge and embrace that reality. You seem to want to yell your head off at anyone that won't absolutely accept your preferred moral system, as though that will get you what you want. I assure you, it will not. >Well, I don't believe in the Nazi-Darwinian crap. What does that even mean? >What do I do? My recommendation would be to convince other people that it's not in their interest to support slavery, and do what you can to change reality so that it's not in their interest to support slavery. Don't expect making people go against their interests by telling them they're horrible to be an effective or sustainable solution. If you convince them you're right about how horrible they are, and they go against their own interests, then what you've just done is harm the material interests of people that are predisposed toward listening to moral arguments, and effectively selected against trait. >If you can't do that, I am justified in using violence against you, in self-defence, as I try to defend myself and others against the violence you try/wish to inflict upon me and others. I think that's probably a bad idea, and not just because you'd lose the fight. The people you're fighting to allow into this country are not very likely to be sympathetic to your moral arguments, or even to your well-being. |