[FungalRaincloud]

Counterpoint here: I went on a ketogenic, high fat, medium protein, low carb diet this past year, and managed to lose roughly the same amount in probably the same amount of time (if not less), doing basically the same thing. I ate what I wanted. I got full a lot faster, though. I also felt like I had more energy and suffered less brain fog while on the diet. I'll likely go back on it pretty soon here.

[tutufan]

It could well turn out that the common factor here is not consuming a lot of highly refined carbohydrates (sugar, flour, etc.).

More importantly, metabolism is just incredibly complicated, with many complex relationships and effects. On top of that, there is significant genetic variation, so these will differ across individuals. For now, we pretty much have to experiment on ourselves and observe what works.

[com2kid]

> It could well turn out that the common factor here is not consuming a lot of highly refined carbohydrates (sugar, flour, etc.).

Also monitoring food intake.

I am a huge proponent of ketogenic diets, but I also realize having a diet that completely forbids me from eating all common dessert and snack foods is what contributes in large part to calorie reduction.

Sure, I love all the other benefits from the diet, but part of what works about restrictive diets is that they are so restrictive.

[jtwebman]

I have been eating stuff with sugar and some flour so not sure that is the case. Also there are a bunch of search backing my diet but you don't hear much about it because you can't sell anything with eat potatoes :)

[lloeki]

> More importantly, metabolism is just incredibly complicated, with many complex relationships and effects

Plus you're missing on many other factors, especially sleep and mood.

[jtwebman]

You can lose weight on it but you are really tricking your body into starvation. Also it does nothing to help with our number one killer in the US, heart disease. It really isn't healthy for you and most people gain all the weight back. Here is a good video on it as well. He does a way better job at explaining it with links to all the sources he brings up. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzHLAqyO7PQ

[sov]

> but you are really tricking your body into starvation.

Our bodies are not organisms that may be deceived. Thus, you are not "tricking" your body--it's simply utilizing a separate, historically common, metabolic pathway.

> Also it does nothing to help with our number one killer in the US, heart disease

I'm afraid you're mistaken. Most ketogenic studies and reports I've read pretty decisively say that the main predictors of heart disease improve dramatically on a ketogenic diet. LDL, HDL, and triglycerides all tend to improve.

> It really isn't healthy for you

You're mistaken.

> and most people gain all the weight back

Most people gain most of the weight back, as per any diet ever. Do you think your starch-based diet is immune to this effect? I have a very "whatever works" opinion on dieting. Your starch diet works for you, a ketogenic diet works for others, and that seems okay.

[jtwebman]

> Our bodies are not organisms that may be deceived. Thus, you are not "tricking" your body--it's simply utilizing a separate, historically common, metabolic pathway.

Did you watch the video? Studies show you are starving yourself (http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/bmb.2005.49403304...). Ketogenic diet is very dangerous see: https://www.thepaleomom.com/adverse-reactions-to-ketogenic-d... There are no bad side effects from a starch based diet.

> I'm afraid you're mistaken. Most ketogenic studies and reports I've read pretty decisively say that the main predictors of heart disease improve dramatically on a ketogenic diet. LDL, HDL, and triglycerides all tend to improve.

Starch based diet has cured heart disease and has taken people from high 200's to under 150 and even lower.

> > It really isn't healthy for you > You're mistaken.

See first comment

> Most people gain most of the weight back, as per any diet ever. Do you think your starch-based diet is immune to this effect? I have a very "whatever works" opinion on dieting. Your starch diet works for you, a ketogenic diet works for others, and that seems okay.

Because you can stay on a starch based diet forever, which I plan on doing, as it really isn't a diet but a choice on the food I am eating. I am not hungry like all the other diets I have ever been on.

There are many other reasons to be on a vegan diet over just health like animal cruelty and environment. I would rather see wins in all three but I agree with you that you need to find what works for you. This is a person decision as you make the choice on what you put in your own mouth.

[sov]

> Did you watch the video?

I'm trying to formulate a reply, without sounding snarky, expressing the notion that a youtube video by "Vic the Vegan" claiming to have "debunked" an entire diet (which has more downvotes than upvotes, mind you) might not be a credible source and it's probably in no one's interest to pay it any credence. Especially, as it seems, that Vic himself has no particular expertise in the field (a field which is highly prone to Dunning-Krugerism). I'm sure if the video makes any good points you'll be able to formulate an argument around them.

> Studies show you are starving yourself

Have you read that link? I ask because it's obvious you have not as it speaks volumes to ketogenic dieting's benefit. """Fuel storage depots, like subcutaneous and abdominal adipose tissue, have a high calorie:weight ratio and are capable of meeting the energy requirements directly or indirectly (lactate and pyruvate powered by free fatty acid oxidation) for most tissues, without adverse effects. As we demonstrated, survival during prolonged starvation depends upon the ability of the body to spare the oxidation of vital proteins in the liver, muscle, heart, kidney, etc. Of special importance in this regard is the metabolic role of ketone bodies. Because of their association with diabetes, ketone bodies were long held to reflect a disease state; our research totally changed this view"""

Also, thepaleomom is not a good source.

> Starch based diet has cured heart disease and has taken people from high 200's to under 150 and even lower.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19641727

> Because you can stay on a starch based diet forever, which I plan on doing, as it really isn't a diet but a choice on the food I am eating. I am not hungry like all the other diets I have ever been on.

This same point can be made for a ketogenic diet.

> There are many other reasons to be on a vegan diet over just health like animal cruelty and environment.

Oh, absolutely. But that's nutritionally notwithstanding in this context. Like before, if you have found something that works for you, that's great, but it's ridiculous to say that anything else is somehow wrong or dangerous, especially when you can't claim any degree of expertise in the field.

[accountyaccount]

Arguably healthier than being overweight.