[gothrowaway]

I got paid to learn to program. 45k a yr to start off with. Then 70k a few months later.

You don't need to pay a school to learn to code.

The sad truth is, there are recruiters who will throw out your resume if you associate with bootcamps. Why? Because the quality of the programmers they generate is low.

Code camps run like mills. From stories I've heard, they pay instructors as contractors below market rate (20-50k, long long hours) and throw them away with no severance.

That's not even to speak about those who forked over $16,000 you'll never hear of here because they're too embarrassed and afraid they'll get jumped.

Worse, try mentioning anything critical on Bootcamps and they'll create sock puppet accounts to downvote you, harass you and so on.

If you don't believe me, go on /r/cscareerquestions or quora threads mentioning bootcamps. They'll have coursereport.com shilling and trying to keep you from the reality:

You can learn to code on GitHub for free.

You can host repositories on GitHub for free.

You can download Atom (https://atom.io/) and Visual Studio Code (https://code.visualstudio.com/) for free.

You can download Linux for free (https://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop).

You can watch MIT/Stanford/etc. Data Structures and Algorithm courses online for free: https://github.com/prakhar1989/awesome-courses

Free Programming Books: https://github.com/EbookFoundation/free-programming-books/bl...

Free development services: https://github.com/ripienaar/free-for-dev

And you do not need any college or bootcamp to work at Amazon, Microsoft, or Google.

Seriously, just grab a copy of Cracking the Code Interview.

[xiaoma]

>"The sad truth is, there are recruiters who will throw out your resume if you associate with bootcamps.Why? Because the quality of the programmers they generate is low.

>Code camps run like mills. From stories I've heard, they pay instructors as contractors below market rate (20-50k, long long hours) and throw them away with no severance."

Bootcamp grad here who mentioned it prominently in my resume and blogged my experience and put up a YouTube video once a week while I was going through. I'm not sure who filters out bootcamp grads, but I can say Google, FB, Apple, Netflix, and many many YC companies reached out to me repeatedly and I ended up working at a YC startup.

Maybe the companies tossing out non-traditional candidates are actually the same companies that wouldn't be that great to work for to begin with.

[flor1s]

I did my masters in Computer Science (graduated cum laude) and am currently in the third year of my PhD. I applied for a few companies but I am having trouble getting through the coding tests, which are sometimes very practically oriented (Android and iOS). Maybe I am not skilled enough as a programmer, or the companies tests are not suitable for me, or the companies themselves are not suitable for me, but I believe I would have a better chance of getting hired if I had the practical experience these companies are looking for. Your advice about reading Cracking the Coding Interview is spot on, however I would say a bootcamp aimed at studying exactly that book would be very beneficial for landing a job.

[wand3r]

Why do you think you're having trouble? Presumably you know at least 1 language well and can build shit? Are you looking for competitive jobs and are you trying very hard? In my experience a lot of people get jobs through networks so I wonder if you are quite qualified, feel competent you can do (or learn quickly) the job but simply can't get the opportunity. I feel that way.

I went to a boot camp, know a few languages fairly well, can do a lot with a computer. I think certainly more than enough for entry level. I am trying to break in myself, once "in" I think I could carry entry/jr workloads but getting in is hard

[flor1s]

I guess the jobs I am applying for are rather competitive. I study in Japan and I am applying for jobs here which are open for those who do not speak business level Japanese, and there aren't many jobs like that.

I've build pretty significant systems. A few years ago I was working as an ASP.NET WebForms/MVC developer and recently I've been working on a web based visual programming tool using NodeJS and a graph database.

[busterarm]

Something just didn't sit right with me about this post and it took me a while to find it.

> The sad truth is, there are recruiters who will throw out your resume if you associate with bootcamps.

Is there _anyone_ in this industry that needs to actively seek out recruiters? The only people I know with strong relationships with recruiters are either at the top of this field or the bottom.

Outside of a couple that I know are good, I don't even really take their calls. Easily 10+ new LI connection requests from recruiters every day.

This comment really doesn't pass the sniff test.

[gothrowaway]

> Is there _anyone_ in this industry that needs to actively seek out recruiters?

You don't. Recruiters could also mean the people who pour over resumes when people apply for jobs.

The intention is whoever is looking over resumes will overlook candidates merely for attending a bootcamp.

Need proof?

[busterarm]

I don't need proof. Different companies are skewing for different metrics in their interviewing.

Some companies like to skew heavily in favor of academic computer science knowledge. It's a bias that they have and it may or may not be the correct one. Google skews this way, but Google also interviews and hires bootcamp grads. I also know plenty of bootcamp grads with strong academic computer science knowledge, but in general this is not the case.

That said, throwing out a resume for the sole reason that you saw someone attended a bootcamp regardless of what else they know, have done and are capable of, which is what you are insinuating, is totally stupid and possibly a bit deranged. Whoever is doing that shouldn't have input in hiring. Anywhere.

[13of40]

> And you do not need any college or bootcamp to work at Amazon, Microsoft, or Google.

Until you can throw some patents and published works in that blank section on the resume where the school goes, it's an uphill battle, though.

[gothrowaway]

More like:

A couple of years at startups where the hiring bar is lower. A couple of github projects. A couple of presentations at local meetup groups.

And having a really really good interview when you get to the whiteboard.

[yomly]

What level are people entering Goog/Amzn on this path? Presumably not the same as a college graduate...?

[xiaoma]

From what I saw of people in my cohort and the few after it, the entry point is usually a bit higher, like where someone with a college degree + 1-2 years enters.

Disclaimer: my school was a very intense 6-day/week, 10-14 hours per day for a total of 900 or so hours. This is a lot more coding than people tend to think when they hear 3 months and there are instructors and classmates helping with the actual coding process.

[PenguinCoder]

Can you share what bootcamp paid you to learn programming. Or was it a situation like current/previous employer paid for you to attend?