[throwaway99951]

>Just drive around Northern Ontario for a bit if you want to have an idea of what poverty in a first world country looks like.

As someone born and raised in Northern Ontario, I have no idea what you're talking about.

You want to know what modern poverty looks like, go to San Francisco.

[bungie4]

I work in Tech (programmer) in Sudbury.

Their is far more money here than appears on the surface. Years of 10,000+ miners making 100K+ per year + nickel bonus saw to a rather well off retirement community and thriving big ticket item market. Yup, lots of them borrowed to get there quickly. But it was also paid off quickly.

Now, that being said, Sudbury is a very different place 15 years later. The vast majority of the mining jobs are gone, the infrastructure is falling apart. But I wouldn't even come close to calling it poor. Is the future bright here. Nope. But I wouldn't call lots of the major centers to the south prosperous either.

Myself. I never had a CC until I was in my 40's. Even then, they are rarely used, and, paid off immediately. Despite what I think is an artificially inflated local housing market, I manage to save a significant chunk of my income every month. The root cause of the debt problem, I think, is the lack of education. Schools haven't taught 'money' in ages. Managing a household is no different than managing a small business. People have been purposely NOT taught how to manage their money by our education system, it borders on the negligent.

[jacquesm]

Sudbury is kind of special on account of a certain comet landing there.

[bungie4]

Doesn't matter if its a nickel delivered from space, or timber or diamonds or gold. What matters is that it's a resource based economy that has been sold and sold resold to different companies

Anecdotal evidence of money issues is my buddy who does repo's and is baliff. Just before the economy goes into the tank as a whole, he's called it each time because repo's and defaults shoot way up just before.

Unfortunately, he's very busy at the moment.

[jacquesm]

I'm very sorry to hear that. I spent 5 years in all in your beautiful country, have spent many days in and around Sudbury and the Timmins area.

[jacquesm]

> As someone born and raised in Northern Ontario, I have no idea what you're talking about.

Been to Wawa, Sault Ste. Marie, North Bay or Timmins recently? What about the smaller towns like Desbarats, what about the rural areas?

It's - to me - incredible that in a first world country people would be living like that, I've seen poverty in other countries as well, but not in places where the winters are that cold. In Panama or Colombia you can get away with living in a shack, in Northern Ontario it is not an option.

If you feel that Northern Ontario is doing well then you are not in agreement with the people that live there, younger people - if they have any marketable skills - move to the large cities, mostly Toronto but also in the United States as soon as they are able to.

Sure, San Francisco has poverty too, but at least the climate won't outright kill you (in case you were wondering why there aren't so many street people in Northern Ontario: the ones that try usually do not last a single season).

[throwaway99951]

>Been to Wawa, Sault Ste. Marie, North Bay or Timmins recently? What about the smaller towns like Desbarats, what about the rural areas?

Yes, in fact I have. I lived in North Bay for many years. I have family there still. I played NOJHL hockey. I still spend 4 weeks a year on vacation (best fishing in the world!) in the North.

>If you feel that Northern Ontario is doing well then you are not in agreement with the people that live there, younger people

Not "doing well" isn't the same as "first world poverty". Sure, there are isolated First Nations reservations, like Attawapiskat, that have serious issues. It is nowhere near the norm, or in fact much worse than places like, say, the Appalachian coal regions.

But I'll concede the climate argument. Thankfully, our country has a decent safety net.

>younger people - if they have any marketable skills - move to the large cities, mostly Toronto but also in the United States as soon as they are able to.

Do they? Because I was and know many of those young people. Yes, there's movement to the cities like everywhere else on the planet; it's where the white collar work is. But many people want to stay in the North.

For what it's worth, I'm in the tech industry and moved from Northern Ontario to the city. Now I'm in PEI, another beautiful rural area that I hear people are fleeing....

[jacquesm]

> For what it's worth, I'm in the tech industry

You don't feel that skews your perspective just a little bit?