[igk]

I think this is missing the point.There was a time where health care costs for German, British or any other citizen of countries with single payer healthcare were reasonable, without any of your 3 points (ok,maybe number 3).

This time was just about a millisecond ago.

[dragonwriter]

Germany (like every OECD country but the US) has universal healthcare but not (along with several other non-US OECD countries) single-payer healthcare. US reform advocates often confuse the two.

[igk]

True, I was imprecise Though I feel like the laws and incentives our Germany closer to the single payer end of the spectrum, contrasting with Switzerland which also has universal healthcare but different incentive structures, which lead to them being #2 in health care costs

[dreamcompiler]

I'm not suggesting single-payer can't work. One existence proof that it can is right here in the US with Medicare and the VA. I'm suggesting that the invisible hand of the market can work too, because it has in the past. What we have now is neither single-payer nor market-based capitalism.

[dragonwriter]

Medicare (because of the existence of Medicare Advantage) is not single-payer (or even single-payer of first resort with optional supplemental coverage), it's more like Obamacare with an added default public option.

[igk]

Was the effect comparable using our current values though (assuming somewhat equal access to healthcare is a value we share). Is there data how the era you claim to be working well dealt with chronic diseases, Terminal diseases or how lower and middle class faired healthwise compared to upper class?