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by om2 3301 days ago
Not in the version that will ship in iOS 11 / High Sierra. Not yet determined for future versions.
3 comments

If there's anything we (Mozilla) can do to help, please let us know.
So, "full support" might be misleading to put in the title.
Is that a political or technical decision?
They would likely argue that HEVC and H.264 are hardware accelerated on nearly all of their devices whereas VP8 likely isn’t. This would mean compromising on battery life as they’d have to provide a software fallback where needed. I don’t see Apple being very willing to provide a bad user experience and given how hard they were pushing HEVC during their 2017 WWDC keynote the best bet is that they think that’s the better option.

Alternatively they’d have to add VP8 support in their chips and one suspects they would be unwilling to spend silicon on that which could otherwise be used for whatever witchcraft their silicon designers are whipping up.

I’d grant that as a valid technical reason for limited video codec support. Silicon and battery are at a premium.

I always find it disappointing when video from Apple doesn't work in Firefox. There are quite a few JavaScript libraries available these days which support HLS in browsers which don't have built-in HLS support but Apple doesn't make use of them.
Apple should stop fooling around, and start using DASH+MSE instead. But being Apple, they have very hard time letting go of their NIH and lock-in.
The problem with DASH these days is that you might have to buy a patent license to use it. The MPEG LA wants to sell you one anyhow:

http://www.mpegla.com/main/programs/MPEG-DASH/Pages/Intro.as...

HLS has no such problems which makes it the better choice.

Apple should stop fooling around, and start using DASH+MSE instead. But being Apple, they have very hard time letting go of their NIH and lock-in.

Apple was doing video [1] long before Firefox and the web were a thing; perhaps it's Mozilla that needs to get with the times and industry standards.

[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QuickTime

> They would likely argue that HEVC and H.264 are hardware accelerated on nearly all of their devices whereas VP8 likely isn’t.

I'm sure a lot of them do, but it's also true that there are a lot of Mac laptops out there which will be upgraded to High Sierra that don't have hardware HEVC acceleration.

WebRTC has codec negotiation, which means you can give preference to a particular codec while still supporting both.
Except that open source and free software can't (legally) do that.

Both HEVC and H.264 require the patent holders to be paid in order to be allowed on either a device or content.

Right.... so an open source program/device might only offer VP8. While Apple could offer both H264/HEVC and VP8, preferring the former.
They could, but as discussed in this thread, they won't. This means chromium, for example, will not be able to webrtc video with Apple devices.
Cisco provides a fully licensed encoder, OpenH264, that you can download for free (Firefox uses it). That loophole was removed for H.265, though. I would have rather had only VP8 mandatory to implement in the standard, but at least this situation is better than the reverse.
Is that a political or technical decision?

One obvious technical issue is that, as far as we know, there's no VP8 decoding hardware in any of Apple's products; implementing VP8 decoding in software might be more of a power drain than Apple wanted.

> there's no VP8 decoding hardware in any of Apple's products

But what I found interesting in the WWDC session you linked to was that a lot of Apple products don't have hardware HEVC decode and\or hardware HEVC encode support. Apple has implemented software HEVC decoding and encoding in a lot of places. From that perspective, adding support for VP8 and VP9 wouldn't be much different.

Apple avoid supporting free codecs, because they are part of closed codecs cartel. So they do all they can to delay adoption of free codecs. Note, that they didn't join Alliance for Open Media, while even Microsoft did: http://aomedia.org
Do you think you would get an answer to this question?