[cptskippy]

You're joking right? Factory reset your iPhone sometime and note all of the prompts to share and access your data. The only difference between MS and Apple is that Microsoft made the mistake of presenting everything all on one screen instead of breaking it up over 5 or 10 prompts as you use the device.

[dkonofalski]

There's a huge difference between being asked if it's ok to share your data and just sharing it by default. Additionally, Apple doesn't offer any kind of way for anyone but you to decrypt your data.

[jacobolus]

I think he’s referring to aggregated anonymized usage data, which people can opt in or out of with no effect on function. (This is different than messages, etc., which are stored on Apple’s servers but end-to-end encrypted.)

[dkonofalski]

I know he is, but that's not the same thing as what he's implying and, even then, Apple's solution is opt-in while Microsoft's was on by default.

[tinus_hn]

If Apples solution is opt-in, Microsofts is in. For many things there just is no opting out.

[dkonofalski]

How can you say that when Windows 10 had Cortana turned on by default? Siri is not enabled by default on a Mac (just like all the other services) and you have to purposely choose to have them turned on during install.

[addicted]

I'm pretty sure I was asked to opt in to Cortana during install. During the setup phase so it may be true of OEMs as well.

[eugeniub]

Messages are not currently stored on Apple servers unless you enable iCloud backup.

[MBCook]

As of today they will be! And synced across devices.

Hooray.

(still encrypted)

[cptskippy]

So you've never actually installed Windows 10 then? Because from the beginning it's asked for permission to share your data for things like Cortona, the touch keyboard, ink, voice, etc. Based on user response they've evolved the interface and made it clearer removing anti-patterns.

This is the same stuff Apple asks for permissions on.

Microsoft doesn't let you turn off telemetry data entirely. Things like hardware configurations and installed drivers are still send, albeit anonymously so that Microsoft can better support the OS.

Again Apple does something similar. Spotlight and Safari send data back to Apple even when you're making queries against other services (e.g. DuckDuckGo Searches). And like Microsoft, there's no UI to disabled it.

[dkonofalski]

Yes, I have. I installed it 2 weeks before it was released to the public as part of the Windows Insider program and then again on several machines after release and, most recently, in the Creator's Update. Until there was a huge backlash against MS, all of those things were opt-out and turned on by default, including Cortana and the ink features. Apple does not turn any of these on by default, nor have they ever, and you have to opt-in to those features to use them.

Spotlight and Safari send anonymous data back that is parsed and separated so that it can't be used to identify the machine, user, or account that they came from. That's wildly different from the MS approach even after all the changes made on MS's end.

[cptskippy]

You're right that it's opt-out with Microsoft and opt-in with Apple. However Microsoft's opt-out screen appears during setup before you ever even reach the desktop. Where as Apple's opt-in is a nag that occurs periodically as you use the device or anytime you install an update.

I understand that Apple has publicly disclosed how they anonymize data and roll identifiers but Microsoft hasn't so you really can't say if telemetry data can be tied back to a user or not because you don't know.

[dkonofalski]

Apple's opt-in is only triggered when you attempt to use a feature that relies on a function of the opt-in or when a new OS feature utilizes those functions. It's not a nag. It doesn't ask you until you want to use it. Microsoft assumes you want to use it and hides the opt-out settings under an "Advanced" button during setup when it asks about new features and then promptly asks you again after it assumes that you don't know what you're doing. The "Are you sure?" prompts on Windows are far more egregious.

[addicted]

But that's basically spotlight so it's a difference with little meaning IMO.

[0x0]

You can turn off spotlight and safari and siri suggestions and there should be no traffic to Apple after that.

[CamperBob2]

Yes, Microsoft has a long history of providing user privacy and control settings and then ignoring or reverting them.

[cptskippy]

Absolutely and so does everyone else. Google is great at asking/nagging you to turn features back on that you've turned off in Android. And every time you update iOS, if you have Location Services or some other feature like iCloud turned off then you get nagged to turn them back on.

[ams6110]

I thought I had read that there were ways to shut off all the MS telemetry via hidden settings or registry changes.

Cortana can also be disabled by quickly deleting or renaming a file somewhere, after killing a process. Specifics can be googled.

[cptskippy]

There are ways to disable all of the various data collection mechanisms but they aren't sanctioned by Microsoft and MS provides no user interface for them. There are several projects on Github that perform varying degrees of this.

The same goes for Apple's collection mechanisms.