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by strommen 3295 days ago
Electricians, plumbers, etc. all make very good money without 4- year degrees. But nobody aspires to these professions nowadays - everybody assumed they must go to university.
2 comments

New Zealand has a reasonable education system where tertiary vocational education is treated on par with a two-year degree, meaning one can still be a professional and then spend just two extra years to achieve a college diploma, if they so desire.
But it's not about "making very good money"--you look at who runs the country and it's a tiny few who attended a select group of institutions. It makes the whole "American Dream" concept a huge lie. But you can't tell a kid "you'll never be a CEO" but chances are if their father isn't one and they don't go to a big name school, they truly will never be one.

Everything about our country is one big lie.

The American dream isn't about becoming C-level or running the country.

College is oversold but the American Dream is alive if you go to a cheap school and buy a house in a smaller city or burbs. There are plenty of great cities and emerging ones with jobs and reasonable cost of living.

However, if you choose to buy crap you don't need and succomb to debt, that's not America's fault. That's yours.

But yes it's dead in LA, NYC and SF. You have to be a top performer there. But that's just supply and demand. Nobody owes you the American Dream in those cities. You aren't entitled to it.

> There are plenty of great cities and emerging ones with jobs and reasonable cost of living.

Which cities? How long will it be until they too turn into LA, NYC, and SF (While being surrounded by oceans of hopelessness and poverty)?

Is there a place you can live that doesn't need plumbers or electricians?
Never lived in a place that didn't need doctors or CEOs, either. "Become a tradesperson" is useful advice for an individual, and completely useless as a solution to the economic problems of non-coastal towns.
I'd urge you to explore some other great cities like Nashville, Minneapolis, Chicago, Austin, St. Louis, Milwaukee, Denver and all the suburbs and even small towns surrounding them.

You're so hung up on the CEO thing which is irrelevant. We don't need more CEOs just like we don't need more lawyers and doctors. And you mention doctors - those are needed in any town of size anyway. My own grandfather was a doctor in a rather small town outside of Little Rock and he did very well for himself and sent 4 kids to college, one to med school. His son is doing the same thing now as a doctor in Memphis.

The American Dream is alive and well: it's just changed. It's no longer "graduate college, get a good job, buy a home and be set for retirement"

Too many people just aren't adapting and are frustrated because they are sinking themselves with poor decisions like crippling debt.

I know people w 200k school debt that graduated with degrees targeting jobs that tap out at around 80k that are way more competitive than any tech or marketing occupation. Makes no sense.

My uncle makes 100+k selling tools out of a town of 6k people. My father in law makes 150k+ in HVAC out of a suburb of about 50k people. They both own their homes outright. One didn't go to college.

People don't want to learn general crafts like sales and they don't want to learn crafts that get their hands dirty. Their parents keep pushing them into college which provides less and less value and tons of debt.

The American Dream doesn't go away just because less people are realizing it. It goes away because people are being stubborn and we have a nation of financially ignorant and wreckless citizens.