[credo]

It was a bit disingenuous for Trump to describe India and China as top polluters

India (population 1.3 Billion) creates lesser CO2 emissions than the US

China's per-capita emissions is just around half of that of the US

[Edit: replying to comment about pollution and emissions

The Paris agreement is about climate change and reducing greenhouse gas emissions.

When Trump talks about polluters and withdrawing from the Paris agreement, it seems illogical to suggest that he wasn't referring to CO2 emissions]

[panzagl]

Pollution is not CO2.

[gonvaled]

When talking about global warming, yes.

To an overwhelming extent.

[panzagl]

And this is why the US has so much trouble with climate change as an issue- first it was sulfur dioxide, then lead, then CFCs, now it's CO2. The US has been doing this since the 70's. Now Europe and China want to pretend they care with words, and giving the US's money to the third world, yet every picture of a city in China looks like London in the 1890's and it turns out those oh so green Euro car makers were cheating their emissions tests, but that's not important, what's important is that we hold hands and make pleasant noises at each other.

I don't see how anyone who calls themselves an engineer can stomach when this feel good ignorance is put forward as a solution- this is rearranging deck chairs to the highest degree.

[gonvaled]

What are you talking about?

Lead is bad for your health.

CFCs are bad for Ozone.

CO2 is bad for global warming.

All pretty much universally accepted.

European cars, with cheating and all, are miles ahead of US cars. And they have been heavily fined for cheating, as they should.

And China has not yet contributed a meager percent of the cumulated US CO2. Not to talk per capita.

The planet is not yours.

[panzagl]

Per capita and cumulated are BS measures to obfuscate that China is a bigger contributor, and likely to grow for a while. The first rule of getting out of a hole is to stop digging- the US has, China hasn't.

[gonvaled]

Let's leave aside if per-capita and accumulated are important metrics or not.

Let's accept that the Chinese are worse polluters than the US.

Congratulations, you are the second worst polluter.

What, did I hear India? Ok, you are just being difficult. Let's say you are the third worst polluter.

What? Did I hear ...? Stop it!

You are one of the worst polluters. Period.

Why do you withdraw?

And yes, you are the worst per-capita and accumulated polluter. In case you were wondering.

[chadgeidel]

I fail to see how the very real reduction in sulfur dioxide, lead, and CFCs is "rearranging the deck chairs". We had a problem, and fixed it. We now have another problem.

[panzagl]

The Paris Treaty is rearranging the deck chairs. The others were fixed by plugging the hole in the boat. Plenty of US companies and governmental agencies are working on plugging this hole, but the country as a whole is tired of being hit up to pay the orchestra so the the rearranging can continue as before.