[younata]

A free/Open source clone of the most successful virus ever created!</unix zealot>

Basically, these guys decided they legally wanted windows, but they didn't want to pay for it.</snark>

It's a cool idea, but, I'm not exactly sure on a) the legality of it and b) the usefulness of it.

[etal]

It's handy for the same reason FreeDOS is handy -- eventually Microsoft will EOL the platform, but there will still be programs that you need to run (for whatever reason) that require that platform.

You're right that there's no point in chasing the most recent Windows version.

[rbanffy]

> but there will still be programs that you need to run (for whatever reason) that require that platform.

But why would that be better, or even preferable, over Wine on top of a Unix-like OS with current programs to run sde by side with your legacy app?

It's they project, their motivation, but I can't share it or understand why not devote these resources to make Wine better (or a better Wine, BTW). It's pretty obvious they are fairly bright guys.

I have to agree with the Unix zealot (I am probably one myself - Unix is a local maximum in the OS space, as eloquently illustrated by the failure of, for instance, Plan 9): of all OS concepts (and with so many exciting ones - like Plan 9) there are to be reinterpreted/reimplemented, why Windows?

[zokier]

I'm quite sure that there are some software that is impossible to run on Wine. Drivers and other stuff that touches the kernel comes to mind.

And ReactOS does make Wine better as they share some code:

"ReactOS works with the WINE project to share as much programming effort as possible. ReactOS depends on Wine mainly for user mode DLLs. Where appropriate, patches to Wine are also submitted by the development team, and patch contributors are often directed to Wine if it is felt that the patches would benefit them." <http://www.reactos.org/wiki/WINE>;

[rbanffy]

You are right, of course.

I remember having read about the ReactOS/Wine cooperation, but I completely forgot about it while making my comment.

Still, it's not the kernel side of the driver that requires a bare OS, but the hardware side that requires the OS not to interfere. The foreign kernel can be emulated. A Windows-like OS can help you use hardware that has no drivers for other OSs but I never had this issue, nor know anyone who needs to run legacy hardware that can't also run a legacy OS.

[iamapipebomb]

Devotion of resource arguments are detrimental to the spirit of liberty in OSS. I think of these works more like exploration than some effort ultimately asymptotic to a goal. Exploration is hardly ever an unrewarding pursuit. And it has beneficial externalities. In this case more than most even!

From http://www.winehq.org/site/acknowledgement: "Wine is at the heart of ReactOS' Win32 support. Initial work improved Wine's portability by cleaning things up so MinGW could compile it. From there, a considerable amount of effort was spent improving Wine's shell32 infrastructure and various controls. The ReactOS team is also responsible for the regedit and task manager utilities." More details are in http://www.reactos.org/wiki/WINE

[rbanffy]

I understand your point, still, exploring the Windows-like OS space is not what I would consider fun. I even happen to use some of the beneficial externalities of their exploration and I am glad they explore it and devote their resources to the side-effects I enjoy.

And those are their resources. I respect their decision, even if I cannot agree with their taste for OSs ;-)

[JulianMorrison]

It's simpler, if all you're running is windows programs? The third world has been a windows fiefdom for ages, and they have to rely on legacy hardware where any spurious processes running mean slowdown.

[rbanffy]

Speak for your part of the third world. ;-)

If you rely on legacy hardware, it's a given you will prefer to rely on legacy software too for the whole stack.

It's not like someone will run air-traffic or medical equipment on an OS different from the one the machine was certified for.

[GeneralMaximus]

Actually, the WINE and ReactOS teams share a lot of code.

[lut4rp]

ORLY.

[mansr]

I don't think there are any legal issues here (but IANAL), and I can see a free Windows clone being useful to some people. However, Microsoft has a 25-year head start so these guys have some serious catching up to do. Until Microsoft goes out of business, I doubt they will ever have a system compatible with a current Windows version.

[hga]

That would be OK by me: I'd prefer to keep myself and my parents at the XP SP3 level quasi-forever as long as the OS was supported (I myself an still using Windows Eudora as my email client).

Well, I suppose eventually Firefox el. al. will drop XP support, but that day will hopefully be far in the future.

[rbanffy]

> I don't think there are any legal issues here

Just imagine how many patents Microsoft will be compelled to use against this project if it ever becomes a perceived threat.

I am sure all MS's EULAs prohibit you from running Microsoft software on anything other than Windows.

[tptacek]

Add this to the list of things you're "sure" about, but shouldn't be.

Nowhere in the EULA for Microsoft Office (their most profitable product) do I find text requiring you to run it on Microsoft Windows. I read it top-to-bottom, then searched for "Windows" (which never occurs) and then "operating system" (which occurs only to warn you that they use your operating system to get to the Internet).

[ratsbane]

This is correct on the face of it. However, some of the terms, though vague, effectively prohibit running Office under Wine, etc. The following phrase occurs in the Office 2007 EULA: "...In doing so, you must comply with any technical limitations in the software that only allow you to use it in certain ways." The phrase "...technical limitations..." is present four times in total; particularly combined with some of the license verification verbage certainly could be used in legal arguments as rbanffy suggested

[tptacek]

Which specific technical limitations would you be referring to?

[ratsbane]

How would you interpret the phrase "...In doing so, you must comply with any technical limitations in the software that only allow you to use it in certain ways?"

[rbanffy]

You are right about Office 2007 (the one license I found), but you are wrong about Internet Explorer. It's license states clearly you can only use IE if you have a license for Windows XP, Vista, Server 2003 or 2008 (the IE8 on my wife's corporate notebook has a Brazilian license that doesn't mention Windows 7)

[rbanffy]

I see very biased moderation when it comes to mentioning Microsoft under anything but the most favorable light. Do they pay for this?

[dRother]

I think you're seeing a knee-jerk reaction to what is seen as a knee-jerk reaction to Microsoft. The truth is, MS clearly sucks beyond any hope. People are sick of hearing it, though, so especially if they use Windows and don't know any better, they deny it and become angry.

[dRother]

I wonder if that has changed recently? I recall hearing about this issue in the past in regards to Office and Wine.